Ratings in Toxic...........

[eas]

It did great, it hasnt gone down much, its within its average and doing better than the second half of last year, again people are not considering that we lost 2 main characters, other shows wouldnt even survive that, 3 if we count JG, who Im sure had some loyal followers. I think Clark in hero mode is pulling in audiences and if this remainīs so, Ill be happy, Im thinking an average of 4.00 million viewers in normal episodes and 5-5.5 in big episodes are really good numbers, not as good as we used to have, where hitting 6 wasnt that big of a deal but given the last seasonīs ratings I think weīr doing just fine.

I agree! I also think that the CW has stepped up a bit in terms of promotion. They have the new "passion" trailer out (that sells the legendary Clark/Lois relationship) and the other trailer with "new heroes/new villains" theme. It seems like they're really trying to sell the whole season and not just focus on selling each episode individually.

If it stays around 4 mil, then I think it will be considered "successful" by CW standards. It's the top rated scripted show of the network - not bad for a show that is in it's 8th season!

[myankskent]

And SV is beating FOX

Which is pretty darn important. This happened back in season 5, I believe, when Smallville continuously beat out The OC. You know that the CW executives are going to be all over the fact that Smallville is beating the competition that FOX has been bringing to the table.

The bottom line is that a continuous string of 4 million viewers during the first half of the season is going to get this show picked up for a season 9. Just look at the other garbage shows on this network. Not one scripted show can even come close to breaking the 4 million mark, Supernatural included, which I hear nothing but good things about from the viewers. I don't watch that show but I don't quite understand why Smallville should be cancelled and not Supernatural when Smallville beats the absolute tar out of Supernatural's ratings week after week, and that is really all that matters when it comes to keeping a show on the air. I'm not saying that I want a season 9. I honestly don't know what I want as of yet. I need to see more of season 8 to decide but I have to be fair and say that Smallville, as of now, is a lock to get picked up for another season when comparing it to the other shows.

[ClarkyBoy14]

I'm not sure how I'd feel about a S9 either. I would like for SV to go out with a bang this year and not prolong the story for yet another season, but at the same time I really don't want to say goodbye to it, and PS3 really seem enthusiastic about another season.

Something I noticed is that both "Siren" and "Toxic" had very similar ratings. I think the CW has an indicator of what to expect from a GA spin-off (minus a couple 100K viewers, maybe), and it looks pretty good, especially for a show on their network.

----- Added 6 Minutes later -----

If it stays around 4 mil, then I think it will be considered "successful" by CW standards. It's the top rated scripted show of the network - not bad for a show that is in it's 8th season!

I think that's something people commonly overlook when they are discussing Smallville's ratings. This the oldest show on the network, yet it continues to bring in the viewers every week.

[SueB]

- I find it disheartening that Marc Berman, from PIFeedback, doesn't hesitate to label Smallville as "Fading Fast," or such titles

Berman may only be focusing on the "18-49" demo (thanks to Boingo for the convenient stats):

Odyssey- 2.9/5; Viewers: 4.4 million; A18-49 1.8/6
Plastique- 2.8/4; Viewers: 4.1 million; A18-49 1.7/5
Toxic-2.7/4; Viewers: 4.01 million; A18-49: 1.6/ 4

If you look at that, SV is slipping lower each week, and is lower than last year.

Bizzaro- 3.6/6; Viewers: 5.1 million; A18-49: 1.9/ 5
Kara- Viewers: 4.6 million; A18-49: 1.8/ 5
Fierce - Viewers: 4.8 million; A18-49: 1.9/ 5

I can't tell you that 1.8 vs 1.6 is some big deal or not but the CW most-promo'd shows are above a 2 in the 18-34 demo (first column) in the stats (see below).
Looking at where Plastique ranked in the CW demo scale (thanks to Massena1 for the stats):

2.5/8 18-34 America’s Next Top Model 4.13 million; 2.1/8 18-49
2.4/7 18-34 Gossip Girl 3.33 million; 1.6/4 18-49
2.2/6 18-34 One Tree Hill 3.13 million; 1.5/3 18-49
2.0/6 18-34 90210 2.94 million; 1.5/4 18-49
1.7/5 18-34 Smallville 4.18 million; 18-49 1.7/ 5
1.2/3 18-34 Privileged 1.86 million; 18-49 0.8/ 2
1.1/3 18-34 Supernatural 3.17 million;18-49 1.3/ 3

IF 18-34 was actually relevant to the S9 decision, SV is one of the lower shows. Someone on Berman's site was making this point and also saying that because it's already well enough into syndication, continuing on is iffy due to production costs. Again, I'm speculating what I think is the rationale for more pessimism in their statements. As far as I can tell, only Berman is a professional media guy for sure. Others could be or they could just be having "fun with numbers". Biases were clearly evident in the dialog.

Big caveat: I am not saying this is 1) definitively what causes Berman to have his statements or 2)the most significant stats EVAH. I'm just saying that this is more complicated than raw numbers by a long shot.

I will agree, Berman seems to run hot & cold on proclaiming positive and negatives about SV. Just today, in the first report of the day he talked about how good the SV/SPN pairing was. Then at the noon report, SV was "slipping". The first week he actually had Smallville in trouble as his headline, but by noon it was "hanging in there". I don't know if he's getting feedback, has a particular stat he cares more about than others or likes/dislikes the show but he does seem inconsistent to me.

[Dannyblue1]

The half hour breakdowns show that Supernatural numbers go down from the start of the show until the conclusion. Smallville's numbers go up throughout the episode. This means that Supernatural gets an artificial boost from Smallville viewers staying on to watch the previews for the next episode.

Actually, not quite.

SV gets a boost from anyone who tunes in even 5 minutes earlier for Supernatural. And SPN's second half hour decline because anyone who changes channels before the show is officially over (meaning the credits have rolled) is counted as a decrease in viewers. So if you're watching SPN and have a Nielson box, and you turn the channel right after the promo for the next week's episode has aired, it's counted as a drop in viewers.

This is why some shows (like SV) have started stretching episodes to the very last minute of the hour, to keep viewers from turning channels too early and negatively effecting the second half hour's ratings numbers. And it's something I really wish SPN would do. However, I actually think they don't because they don't want to create longer commercial breaks.

[ClarkyBoy14]

Berman may only be focusing on the "18-49" demo (thanks to Boingo for the convenient stats):

Odyssey- 2.9/5; Viewers: 4.4 million; A18-49 1.8/6
Plastique- 2.8/4; Viewers: 4.1 million; A18-49 1.7/5
Toxic-2.7/4; Viewers: 4.01 million; A18-49: 1.6/ 4

If you look at that, SV is slipping lower each week, and is lower than last year.

Bizzaro- 3.6/6; Viewers: 5.1 million; A18-49: 1.9/ 5
Kara- Viewers: 4.6 million; A18-49: 1.8/ 5
Fierce - Viewers: 4.8 million; A18-49: 1.9/ 5

I can't tell you that 1.8 vs 1.6 is some big deal or not but the CW most-promo'd shows are above a 2 in the 18-34 demo (first column) in the stats (see below).
Looking at where Plastique ranked in the CW demo scale (thanks to Massena1 for the stats):



IF 18-34 was actually relevant to the S9 decision, SV is one of the lower shows. Someone on Berman's site was making this point and also saying that because it's already well enough into syndication, continuing on is iffy due to production costs. Again, I'm speculating what I think is the rationale for more pessimism in their statements. As far as I can tell, only Berman is a professional media guy for sure. Others could be or they could just be having "fun with numbers". Biases were clearly evident in the dialog.

Big caveat: I am not saying this is 1) definitively what causes Berman to have his statements or 2)the most significant stats EVAH. I'm just saying that this is more complicated than raw numbers by a long shot.

I will agree, Berman seems to run hot & cold on proclaiming positive and negatives about SV. Just today, in the first report of the day he talked about how good the SV/SPN pairing was. Then at the noon report, SV was "slipping". The first week he actually had Smallville in trouble as his headline, but by noon it was "hanging in there". I don't know if he's getting feedback, has a particular stat he cares more about than others or likes/dislikes the show but he does seem inconsistent to me.

Yes, unfortunately, Smallville doesn't always do so hot in the younger demos, which is something that doesn't make it look as good in the CW's eyes.

I've noticed how he changes what he says between the overnights and the fast nats, too. I just wish he wouldn't be so quick to condemn Smallville, when it usually does well.

----- Added 10 Minutes later -----

Actually, not quite.

SV gets a boost from anyone who tunes in even 5 minutes earlier for Supernatural. And SPN's second half hour decline because anyone who changes channels before the show is officially over (meaning the credits have rolled) is counted as a decrease in viewers. So if you're watching SPN and have a Nielson box, and you turn the channel right after the promo for the next week's episode has aired, it's counted as a drop in viewers.

This is why some shows (like SV) have started stretching episodes to the very last minute of the hour, to keep viewers from turning channels too early and negatively effecting the second half hour's ratings numbers. And it's something I really wish SPN would do. However, I actually think they don't because they don't want to create longer commercial breaks.

That's how all the shows on the CW are, at least the scripted shows. Gossip Girl leads straight into One Tree Hill, which then has a commercial after the show has ended. Same thing with 90210/Privileged and Smallville/Supernatural.

I agree that SV can be helped by SN pre-tune in, and SN can be hurt by people not watching the last commercial break. However, last week, SN rose in the last half-hour; and last year, SV's premiere rose without SN leading out of it. So, even though what you mentioned is a small factor, I think the big thing is that SV usually gains viewers as the episode progresses, with or without SN; and SN usually loses viewers, and not just because of the commercial thing.

[xrayvision]

Which is pretty darn important. This happened back in season 5, I believe, when Smallville continuously beat out The OC. You know that the CW executives are going to be all over the fact that Smallville is beating the competition that FOX has been bringing to the table.

The bottom line is that a continuous string of 4 million viewers during the first half of the season is going to get this show picked up for a season 9. Just look at the other garbage shows on this network. Not one scripted show can even come close to breaking the 4 million mark, Supernatural included, which I hear nothing but good things about from the viewers. I don't watch that show but I don't quite understand why Smallville should be cancelled and not Supernatural when Smallville beats the absolute tar out of Supernatural's ratings week after week, and that is really all that matters when it comes to keeping a show on the air. I'm not saying that I want a season 9. I honestly don't know what I want as of yet. I need to see more of season 8 to decide but I have to be fair and say that Smallville, as of now, is a lock to get picked up for another season when comparing it to the other shows.

Matt, you should really check out Supernatural. This season has been something else so far. Thanks to last season of Smallville, I now like Supernatural more than Smallville even
with the improvements in season 8. I want both shows to be picked up next year. It's a big shame Supernatural doesn't get higher ratings. They should promote the heck out of that show & also increase Smallville's promos (but not as much as Supernatural's since that usually gets less promotion & crappier promos than Smallville).

[Tacitus]

Thumbs up for Supernatural too. Its got better quality than Smallville. I dont understand why it doesnt get higher ratings too.

Anyways, good ratings for Toxic, I like.

[eas]

I'll also toss in my vote for "Supernatural"... I'm a huge "SV" fan, but "SN" is a by far better show. This Thursday's episode blew me away... this season has been great.

[scifigirl]

^^This weeks supernatural blew me away too. Gotta love it when a show can explain and add layers to its backstory and set up new and interesting problems in a nice 42 minute episode package.

[eas]

IF 18-34 was actually relevant to the S9 decision, SV is one of the lower shows. Someone on Berman's site was making this point and also saying that because it's already well enough into syndication, continuing on is iffy due to production costs. Again, I'm speculating what I think is the rationale for more pessimism in their statements.

Thanks for that data - it was very interesting.

Well, Dawn Ostoroff has not made secret of the fact that her target demographic is young tween/teen girls & the core female audience that fits within the 18-34 demographic. She's an idiot, of course, because if she took a moment to realize something, she'd see that her most successful shows are the ones that DON'T fall into that very narrow demographic. No network can survive by pandering to such a narrow target audience. Critics and entertainment journalists have been baffled by her continued stubbornness about this - and this includes her lack of promotion for "SV" and "SN".

Personally, I don't want a 9th season for "SV", so I'm not really sweating the numbers this year. I think it's time that "SV" took a bow and exited gracefully. But I am concerned about "SN" because that has, at least, a couple of more years to go before it should fold up.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----

^^This weeks supernatural blew me away too. Gotta love it when a show can explain and add layers to its backstory and set up new and interesting problems in a nice 42 minute episode package.

Yeah... and what I loved was that it didn't contradict what we'd seen before. It fit in to the existing mythology seamlessly.

[ClarkyBoy14]

I like SN as well. I posted this another thread, but I think the writing on it is much more consistent than that on SV. However, I still prefer SV. I'm not sure whether it's just for sentiment, or if I like the characters better.

[Mad Madam Mimm]

Agreed, as much as I love Smallville, democracy is kinda more important.

Its about the only thing though.

Haven't missed an episode in a while.

I agree, democracy IS important. But I have to be honest....I watched my dvr'd episode of Smallville first. Sorry, TW obsession comes before Palin and Biden. Hey...if Clark Kent ran for president, we could kill two birds with one stone!!!

[smallvillerocks45]

I like SN as well. I posted this another thread, but I think the writing on it is much more consistent than that on SV. However, I still prefer SV. I'm not sure whether it's just for sentiment, or if I like the characters better.

I'm with you on this one. I don't know what it is, but I love SV more, too... but I will give the continuity award to SN. They are doing such a wonderful job of explaining Mary's background and the yellow-eyed demon's plan and tying it all back to the "present". I also think it helps that the show only has two main characters to worry about. Yes, their stories are complex, but when you don't have six or seven other characters to consider while writing your stories, plus mythos that are set in stone by a comic book, I think it makes consistency more manageable. It's just an opinion... but that's neither here nor there. The point of this thread is ratings, and I think 4 million is just where the show needs to be if it wants to go beyond a season 8, and in general if PS3 want to end with a bang instead. (I do think sticking around for another season would actually help Supernatural - as a companion show, but that may just be a selfish desire more than reality...)

Anyhow. Thanks for all of the ratings stats. I find the whole process of quantifying viewership quite fascinating.

[Kal-ed]

Berman may only be focusing on the "18-49" demo (thanks to Boingo for the convenient stats):

Odyssey- 2.9/5; Viewers: 4.4 million; A18-49 1.8/6
Plastique- 2.8/4; Viewers: 4.1 million; A18-49 1.7/5
Toxic-2.7/4; Viewers: 4.01 million; A18-49: 1.6/ 4

If you look at that, SV is slipping lower each week, and is lower than last year.

Bizzaro- 3.6/6; Viewers: 5.1 million; A18-49: 1.9/ 5
Kara- Viewers: 4.6 million; A18-49: 1.8/ 5
Fierce - Viewers: 4.8 million; A18-49: 1.9/ 5

I can't tell you that 1.8 vs 1.6 is some big deal or not but the CW most-promo'd shows are above a 2 in the 18-34 demo (first column) in the stats (see below).
Looking at where Plastique ranked in the CW demo scale (thanks to Massena1 for the stats):



IF 18-34 was actually relevant to the S9 decision, SV is one of the lower shows. Someone on Berman's site was making this point and also saying that because it's already well enough into syndication, continuing on is iffy due to production costs. Again, I'm speculating what I think is the rationale for more pessimism in their statements. As far as I can tell, only Berman is a professional media guy for sure. Others could be or they could just be having "fun with numbers". Biases were clearly evident in the dialog.

Big caveat: I am not saying this is 1) definitively what causes Berman to have his statements or 2)the most significant stats EVAH. I'm just saying that this is more complicated than raw numbers by a long shot.

I will agree, Berman seems to run hot & cold on proclaiming positive and negatives about SV. Just today, in the first report of the day he talked about how good the SV/SPN pairing was. Then at the noon report, SV was "slipping". The first week he actually had Smallville in trouble as his headline, but by noon it was "hanging in there". I don't know if he's getting feedback, has a particular stat he cares more about than others or likes/dislikes the show but he does seem inconsistent to me.

What you continue to ignore is that we are minus 2 main characters, that had large fanbases, not just among us internet fans but casual viewers as well.

Basically what your saying is that if Phelps lost an arm and a leg (Lex and Lana) and stoped breaking records but still stayed in a podium position and at the top of his team, we can say heīs doing bad

I honestly cant stand your logic in this matter, yes Smallville isnt doing great, compared to other years but your ignoring the horrible end of last seasonīs raitings (we barely hit the 3 million by the end of the season) and minus two main character, 3 considering JG (as did JS) had his followers.

The decrease in the targeted population (18-34) is a consecuence of the decrease in the
overall raitings, which have been falling for almost all shows. And you should alos consider the DVR numbers, where Smallville does really well.