XRayVision - Some Friendly Advice

[susangail]

xrayvision, keep right on doing what you do. Along with so many others, I've appreciated your comments.

[MBrittan]

You haven't insulted me. This is an interesting discussion. I just don't know how much I'll be able to reply in the next few days with projects and studying for a final I have to get done for my grad classes.

About #1: The very thing that has made watching this show harder for me is the promise of getting to see his training being broken. In Fallout he said he would begin after all the Phantom Zone prisoners were defeated. I really hoped we would see him ask some questions and get some info by now. It's a big problem with the show. Before I go any further, I have to stress this: In no way do I want his training to be anything like what it was in the movie where he enters the Fortress & 12 years later comes out as Superman. That just says Superman is a product of Jor-El, which is absolutely not the case. Instead, the training process could have spanned over the last few years starting in season 5 or 6 where he would gain experience in fighting super criminals from the Phantom Zone, Brainiac, Zod, Aethyr, Nam-Ek, etc through seasons 7 & possibly 8 where as I strongly suggested he split off his Kal-El side for an entire season and fight him. This is the route I'm taking with my fanfic episodes and it's coming out quite good. I started making my season 7 before Smallville's season 6 ended and it has so far resulted in Lex seeing Clark's Kal-El side in costume and knowing he's Naman (like how in the real season 7 Lex was looking for the Traveler). But because in my fanfics Lex saw Clark & the suited Kal-El at the same time, he knows that Clark is not Naman. This is the path my fanfics will continue on once I get a chance to go back. Had the show actually done this, then Lex would have been in pursuit of Kal-El while Clark and Kal-El battled each other and Clark would be concerned for having his powers exposed.

About #2: I actually enjoy some of the changes that they made. The thing I loved most about this show other than Clark's journey in becoming Superman was Clark & Lex being friends and how their friendship would evolve into a bitter rivalry. So I liked a lot of these, though there are some I didn't really prefer. If they would have had an event like the Crisis, which I suggested a few time on these forums, then I could understand a reboot. But Veritas wasn't the result of that. As long as there is a reason for a retcon (time travel, multiple earths diverging & emerging, etc), I would have no problem buying it. But things like Lionel knowing Clark would show up the day he did (which Swann didn't even know) that were never explained and leave deep questions make it hard for me to enjoy the story.

About #3: I know the caves had nothing to do with Ollie's apartment. I was just saying that if they could have kept the clocktower set from Birds of Prey so long without trashing it, then they should have given the same, if not more respect to the Kawatche cave set. The caves were actually important for the show, while the show could have done without the clocktower apartment. My main reason for believing this is the lack of utilizing the Fortress of Solitude since it was created. We only saw it in Arrival, Hidden, Solitude, Reckoning, Vessel, Zod, Fallout, Kara, Blue, Gemini, Persona, Traveler, and Arctic. That's 13 episodes out of the 64 episodes that have taken place since its creation. Even worse is that besides allowing him to come back to life at the cost of Jonathan Kent's life and allowing him to travel back in time, the Fortress has served no significant purpose in his life. Most of the time, Clark is either abusing it or making a mistake with it (i.e. letting Brainiac corrupt it like he did in Solitude and Vessel or letting Zor-El take it over). Since the FOS hasn't appeared in the show much (only twice in season 6), I think it was a mistake to get rid of the caves so early. They could have provided the mythos element that was missing by misusing or not featuring the FOS. This is my opinion. I think instead of having Veritas & the Traveler, they could have done something else with Lex getting more and more info on Naman from the caves thanks to new symbols popping up as Clark goes through various milestones in his life. Clark could have even used the cave paintings as a guide throughout his life, which I was hoping he would (like in season 2). Lionel's death could have also been better had the cave been used more. I noticed a slight tone in Lex's final conversation with Lionel that is somewhat similar to what I have planned for the fanfic episode I'll be writing where Lionel dies in my timeline. Any readers of that fanfic will see why the elements I've been suggesting for the past few years would have made Lionel's death so much more amazing. I really think the location of the Eradicator is another thing that should be documented in the caves. And I seriously hope we see the Eradicator before the show is over. I really think the Kawatche caves attracted more fans to the show and would have made a seriously positive contribution over the past few years.

My main desire about this show is for it to be as great as possible and believe the past few seasons were not really close to their full potential. Maybe it's because they're trying to please all demographics, but I don't think that's possible. I think by now, they have to pick and choose a demographic and run with it. Those who are really fans may stick with the show regardless. I think right now they should focus more on the comic book fan demographic as it gets closer to the Superman era for Clark. That also includes being careful and maybe even hiring some comic editors to review the episodes of the show and prevent contradictions & confusing storylines from happening.

XRay,
There's a lot of information to process here. I'll touch on a few things...
#1 I liked your idea of a Clark/Kal split with "Kal" becoming Naman. That's brilliant actually. It would totally divert Lex's attention away from Clark. And at the end of the season, they could always "merge" the two again with black Kryptonite. Great idea.
#2 I don't think the Fortress has been a huge part of the show (again) because Clark hasn't gone through his training yet. In Clark's mind, it's merely a place to talk to Jor-el (as the caves were). It's like walking into a library and not picking up a book. You can't fully appreciate it until you roll up your sleeves and starting taking advantage of all of the knowledge at your fingertips. In Clark's mind, submitting to the training is to "give in" to Jor-el and accept his destiny. He's not ready to do that (yet). I think (in his mind) doing so would mean he'd somehow lose some of his own free will (as he did the last time Jor-el wanted him to be "reborn"). Given his past experience (when the fake Kara tricked him), I can understand his apprehension. In a way, the same goes for the caves. His future is literally written out on the wall in front him. Nobody likes the idea of having their future planned out for them. It's too restricting.
#3 I think the orb Lex found in his fireplace could be the Eradicator. If memory serves, the Eradicator did start out as an orb (like that one). It eventually kept evolving until it finally took humanoid form. But the only difference is, the orb was meant to control Clark. The Eradicator was built to preserve all things Kryptonian. Is there a way to make them one and the same? Or is that too much of a stretch?
-M-

[xrayvision]

Thanks for the kind words about #1.

#2: Would you agree though that given that they have put off Clark's training for so long that they should have not debuted the FOS as early as they did? Some interesting things did go on in there, but I think they could have held off on that and spent their money more wisely by not spending it on something they have barely utilized so far. The one thing I have to disagree on is that in earlier seasons, Clark wasn't afraid to go to the caves. Even after what Jor-El did to him in Covenant and in that summer between that episode & Crusade, Clark took treks to the cave in season 4. He accepted the caves and the legend back then and I liked that. I really didn't like his attitude in Quest and the disrespect he had for the caves & legend which he knew were proven to be true after what happened in Talisman.

#3: I've been thinking too and made several posts about the orb/device being the Eradicator. Perhaps, what it wants to do is bring down the FOS and recreate it to fulfill its own agenda and free will. That is what happened in the comics. When the Eradicator was a device, it open gateways to the Phantom Zone, made Jimmy Olsen malleable, and caused all sorts of chaos. I'd love to see something like this in season 8. Clark dealing with the consequences of its actions would be a great way for him to train (part of his training). That would give him crisis management training. Fighting his Kal-El side would give him battle experience against a super being tougher than himself (at the moment). And going to Jor-El for occasional lessons would give him technical & other mental training (he would get insights on technology, the types of kryptonite he will encounter during his life, etc).

[MBrittan]

Thanks for the kind words about #1.

#2: Would you agree though that given that they have put off Clark's training for so long that they should have not debuted the FOS as early as they did? Some interesting things did go on in there, but I think they could have held off on that and spent their money more wisely by not spending it on something they have barely utilized so far. The one thing I have to disagree on is that in earlier seasons, Clark wasn't afraid to go to the caves. Even after what Jor-El did to him in Covenant and in that summer between that episode & Crusade, Clark took treks to the cave in season 4. He accepted the caves and the legend back then and I liked that. I really didn't like his attitude in Quest and the disrespect he had for the caves & legend which he knew were proven to be true after what happened in Talisman.

#3: I've been thinking too and made several posts about the orb/device being the Eradicator. Perhaps, what it wants to do is bring down the FOS and recreate it to fulfill its own agenda and free will. That is what happened in the comics. When the Eradicator was a device, it open gateways to the Phantom Zone, made Jimmy Olsen malleable, and caused all sorts of chaos. I'd love to see something like this in season 8. Clark dealing with the consequences of its actions would be a great way for him to train (part of his training). That would give him crisis management training. Fighting his Kal-El side would give him battle experience against a super being tougher than himself (at the moment). And going to Jor-El for occasional lessons would give him technical & other mental training (he would get insights on technology, the types of kryptonite he will encounter during his life, etc).

A couple of things here...
#1 I think they made the transition from the caves to the fortress because the fortress is a part of the superman mythos, the caves are not. Honestly, I don't think they ever intended for the caves to be as big of a part of the series as they became. I think they kind of took on a life of their own in the show after awhile. I think originally it was only supposed to be a brief thing (a couple of episodes) to play with the Naman idea.
#2 I think you and I have a different idea of what Clark's training will include. You seem to think of it as a gradual process which will occur in and out of the fortress, over the course of years. I think of it more as a "cram" session. Maybe a couple of months (uninterrupted) of nothing but Kryptonian history and everything else he needs to know to fulfill his destiny. In other words, I think once he submits to it, he won't be allowed to leave for several weeks until it is done. Afterward, he won't be blind-sided by things like Zod and Brainiac. He'll know. And I do think this will happen closer to the end of the show now because once he endures the training, it will create a sense of urgency in Clark to "do something".
-M-

[xrayvision]

Well, I always feared that it would be a cram session, which is IMO the biggest mistake they can make. I think they really owe it to the fans to show the actual training after all the promises. A cram session is more like the Superman movie. The training in that movie was my main complaint about it.

I know you think it will turn out to be a cram session, but which would you actually prefer if you had your choice? A gradual training period or a cram session?

[MBrittan]

Well, I always feared that it would be a cram session, which is IMO the biggest mistake they can make. I think they really owe it to the fans to show the actual training after all the promises. A cram session is more like the Superman movie. The training in that movie was my main complaint about it.

I know you think it will turn out to be a cram session, but which would you actually prefer if you had your choice? A gradual training period or a cram session?

How do I hope they handle it on the show? I kind of pictured Clark in the fortress, in a similar position to the one Chloe found him in at the beginning of season 5 (when she revealed that she knew his secret). I kind of pictured the information just kind of coming at him in waves. Images (scenes) of Krypton, it's landscapes, famous people and events, etc., being narrated by Jor-el. Almost like a live-action documentary of sorts. I also pictured them eventually showing Clark Jor-el's face sometime before the end of the show and I think it would be cool if they used Terrance Stamp's image (rather than Brando's). I would have this go on over the course an entire episode. In other words, Clark just "sits out" the rest of the episode. The rest of the episode would focus on the other characters like Chloe, Lois, Lana, or Lex and the would sort of switch back-and-forth between that and Clark's training. But I wouldn't drag it out any longer than that because it just wouldn't hold the audience's interest longer than maybe one episode. The "training" I had in mind would almost play out like "school". Not neccessarily "Being a Superhero 101" but rather, here is where you come from and why it's important...
-M-

[xrayvision]

That's pretty much how my episode Krypton is like. Clark goes to repair the damage to the FOS caused by Lionel & Hank Henshaw and while doing so is being taught about Krypton's history, about the Kawatche caves and how Kem-El discovered them, how Kem-El saw the future with a device he built and how he dismantled that device and used its parts to create the Eradicator and how the 3 parts of the Eradicator were seperated and hidden on Earth, on Krypton, and later on partly in the Phantom Zone. Clark also learned that Swann was the Krypton-2 version of himself who built a time machine and went into the future of Earth-2 during the time of the Crisis & got sucked into an interdimensional gateway and ended up on Earth-1 at the same time. He realized that Krypton-1 unlike Krypton-2 was destroyed and wished to go back to save it. So he went back in time to Krypton-1 (lost all non-rudimentary memories in the process) so he could see Jor-El and Lara one final time just before Krypton exploded. Jor-El found out what happened (because Swann programmed his ship to erase his mind so he couldn't influence future events) when he saw the data/memories in Swann's (Kal-El-2's) mind stored on a hard drive in Swann's ship when he was repairing it and sent him off before sending Clark off as a baby. This was the explanation as to why Jor-El trusted Swann so much and why he sent those messages. Unfortunately, Swann lingered and wanted to see Jor-El and got into his ship too late and Krypton's explosion did serious damage to his ship and sent it back to the 1970's. The ship was programmed to go to Earth and crash landed. The explosion of Krypton caused Swann to permanently lose his powers & the trip through time made him lose all memories of who he was. When he woke up after landing on Earth in the 1970's, the people who found him didn't know he was an alien and when he saw remnants of his ship, he believed it to be an alien's and didn't know it was his own. So the ship he came to Earth (with the time machine built inside) in is what gave him his life's goal in searching for aliens.

But in my fanfics, this is only a part of Clark's training. Clark is also battling Kal-El and will battle several others.

[MBrittan]

That's pretty much how my episode Krypton is like. Clark goes to repair the damage to the FOS caused by Lionel & Hank Henshaw and while doing so is being taught about Krypton's history, about the Kawatche caves and how Kem-El discovered them, how Kem-El saw the future with a device he built and how he dismantled that device and used its parts to create the Eradicator and how the 3 parts of the Eradicator were seperated and hidden on Earth, on Krypton, and later on partly in the Phantom Zone. Clark also learned that Swann was the Krypton-2 version of himself who built a time machine and went into the future of Earth-2 during the time of the Crisis & got sucked into an interdimensional gateway and ended up on Earth-1 at the same time. He realized that Krypton-1 unlike Krypton-2 was destroyed and wished to go back to save it. So he went back in time to Krypton-1 (lost all non-rudimentary memories in the process) so he could see Jor-El and Lara one final time just before Krypton exploded. Jor-El found out what happened (because Swann programmed his ship to erase his mind so he couldn't influence future events) when he saw the data/memories in Swann's (Kal-El-2's) mind stored on a hard drive in Swann's ship when he was repairing it and sent him off before sending Clark off as a baby. This was the explanation as to why Jor-El trusted Swann so much and why he sent those messages. Unfortunately, Swann lingered and wanted to see Jor-El and got into his ship too late and Krypton's explosion did serious damage to his ship and sent it back to the 1970's. The ship was programmed to go to Earth and crash landed. The explosion of Krypton caused Swann to permanently lose his powers & the trip through time made him lose all memories of who he was. When he woke up after landing on Earth in the 1970's, the people who found him didn't know he was an alien and when he saw remnants of his ship, he believed it to be an alien's and didn't know it was his own. So the ship he came to Earth (with the time machine built inside) in is what gave him his life's goal in searching for aliens.

But in my fanfics, this is only a part of Clark's training. Clark is also battling Kal-El and will battle several others.

Too confusing. Hard to follow. You have to keep it more simple than that, especially when you consider that Smallville is intended for a television audience. I did like the part about something being "hidden" in the Phantom Zone though. That would create an interesting dilema for Clark. Something he absolutely needed to have but hidden in the worst place possible, with no guarantee of getting out once he finds it...
-M-

[xrayvision]

I think if something like that was done in a TV movie seperate from the show it wouldn't be confusing. Especially if they played recaps from the show where Chloe talked about Swann's past (from Rosetta) prior to the airing of the movie as a reminder.

[MBrittan]

I think if something like that was done in a TV movie seperate from the show it wouldn't be confusing. Especially if they played recaps from the show where Chloe talked about Swann's past (from Rosetta) prior to the airing of the movie as a reminder.

Actually, I was thinking just the oppostite. In a TV movie, you might be forced to tell the story too quickly and then it might become confusing. Maybe it would actually be better in episode form where you could spoon feed it to the audience at a slower rate. I don't mind being forced to think closely when I watch a TV show or movie (I rather enjoy it actually), but I suspect I don't speak for most people...
-M-

[SweetOne]

I had to take a look at this thread because I know that I have always enjoyed your posts xrayvision, and I wanted to know what kind of "advice" you were being offered!!! Well let me just say that you have another person here at K-site that fully supports your posts (and line of thinking). Then again I have been accused of being "too analytical" as well. I think your posts are brilliant and extremely well thought out. I love the detail you get into. While I may cry out against the shoddy writing I can't always come up with (remember) specific episodes/scenes to back up my complaints. So I basically feel EXACTLY the way you do about the show's decline in quality and (to be honest *blushes*) it makes me a bit "starry-eyed" to read you posts that explain my thoughts so well!! Nothing is better to me, than a wordy, passionate, well-thought out, INTELLIGENT post. For all of us that are just really disappointed by what SV has become, you hold up our end of the debate remarkably well.

But in this case, it's not even close to 100% without error. There are tons of errors and plenty of questions that have come up and never answered.

See, I'm also a fan of Supernatural, and IMO the writers of that show are doing a spectacular job. The continuity is great and the episodes are coherent without leaving important questions to be answered. I felt the same about the first 3 seasons of Smallville. The writing was superb, Clark was comparable to his comic book counterpart, and the progression of each season was great.

Season 1 started out with Clark finding out he was an alien, saving Lex, and battling all sorts of freaks. It also had Lex as of X-Ray speaking to Roger Nixon and having him investigate--something that came back at the end of the season when Nixon spied on the Kents. It also started with Lex and his disdain for his father and trying to prove himself to Lionel. It ended with Lionel firing everyone to get Lex to move back to Metropolis (hence that power struggle thing between the 2).

Season 2 started out with Clark's ship being lost and Pete finding it and his secret and Dr. Hamilton finding the ship and showing it to a blind Lionel. From there Lionel took a deep interest in Clark and the stuff with the caves happened and Clark met Swann. The season ended with Lionel taking the caves from Lex and trying to make his own key to find its secrets. The mythos elements of the cave and Clark's ship and Swann were continuously flowing throughout the season and in the end Clark's learning of the Kryptonian language led to him being considered "of age" by Jor-El to begin his quest for the stones.

Season 3 started with Clark in Metropolis under the influence of red-k after making a mistake and blowing up his ship, which caused Martha to miscarry. Jonathan made a deal with Jor-El and this deal kept resonating throughout the season (in Hereafter when Jonathan had a heart attack, in Resurrection when he had heart surgery, in Legacy when Jor-El told him he was waiting, and in Covenant when Jor-El had enough of waiting and sent Lindsay Harrison as Kara). Lex's insanity seen in Exile flowed throughout the season and climaxed in Shattered & Asylum. Immediately resulting from that was Lex's thirst to acquire his lost memories, which continued in the 2nd half of the season. The vial of Clark's blood in Exile and Phoenix also was a recurring theme in Resurrection, Crisis and several other episodes. So was Lionel's continuing interest in Clark and the caves. Chloe's arrangement with Lionel was another big plot.

Season 7 didn't have such a good flow. We got Bizarro (who was a great villian), who then just disappeared until Gemini. We then got a Julian clone arc that just led to nowhere (killed by Lex and no follow-up by Lionel, Lois, Clark or Chloe for facts). The same happened after Lionel's death. We had an interesting character with Dr. Knox, but never saw him again either. We also had interesting tidbits of life on Krypton in Kara and Lara that culminated into the events in Blue. But this had nothing to do with the Veritas storyline that permeated the last 7 episodes. There was no Julian in those last episodes, no Zor-El, no Lara, no Curtis Knox, and not enough Brainiac as there should have been. The season had too many things going on and they didn't come together. And it left too many unanswered questions that could have been avoided had they used something else other than Veritas.

None of the other shows I watch have this problem. House is a show that's brilliantly written. I also like Supernatural's writing. As much as I disliked most of season 6, I didn't think it did as bad a job of being a coherent season. I blame it mainly on the Veritas retcon. And I'm unsatisfied that a character I loved throughout my life (Superman/Clark Kent) is so ignorant, pathetic and even disrespectful with only a season left until he supposedly becomes Superman.

I can understand Clark making mistakes as long as he's trying like he did in Shattered when he did everything in his power to try to save Lex from being mind-zapped. But Clark now just lets the world go to hell and tries to save it after it's too late. He needs reassurance from Chloe to go and act. This is after Jonathan died, after Lionel died, after he was trapped in the Phantom Zone, after Lana was put into that comatose state, after Zor-El nearly killed him, after Brainiac went back in time to try to kill him, etc. We were promised Clark's training as soon as the last phantom was killed. That officially happened in Persona and we haven't seen any training.

I guess I'm just an optimist, waiting for things to turn around and become good again (which I thought would have been this season). Just like I watch the Knicks knowing that they're horrible and suck and will keep losing, but that they will eventually turn things around. I'm hoping the same for the show that I spent too much time watching and posting about.

Ok. Word for word...this post is perfect. As a fellow Supernatural fan, I am always making comparisons between the writing of the two shows. Supernatural is just pheneomenal EVERY season. The writing is always tight and focused, well-paced and progressive. I think because I can see the high caliber level writing in SPN, I expect the same of SV. I mean SV does have the potential to be just as well-written.

I know many people are able to cut the show some slack because it's just for "entertainment" so we should "sit back and enjoy". I've tried to do that but but it's all the more obvious that SV is lacking when you watch other superior TV shows every week. Amongst the other shows SV sticks out like a sore thumb because they pretty much put Smallville to shame.

I would agree that the only REALLY strong, focused, high-quality writing came from seasons 1-3 (and arguably S4 because he was still in highschool-loved those years) because the story moved forward at a steady pace and more importantly Clark moved FORWARD (and we had a great core cast of characters). Unfortunately, all the seasons beyond that went steadily downhill. For the next 4 seasons we watched Clark dig his heels in the ground and refuse to move. His character needed to evolve and develop, but most of the time we watch a Clark that has regressed in his journey rather than progressed. It is so insanely FRUSTRATING. They have not done the Clark Kent character justice for several years now.

But this latest season has been the worst. One of the main reasons why I think that Clark Kent has been written poorly (esp. this past year) is size of the cast of characters. It's quantity vs. quality people. They only have 40 mins. an episode so if the writers have to focus on (keep on developing) the other characters they have brought on the show...let's count 'em- Lana, Chloe, Lex, Lionel, Kara, Lois, Jimmy even Julian....that's less time developing and enriching Clark Kent's character. Again, this is one of the reasons why I think Supernatural is so successful. It has a small core cast. The writers are able to spend more time investing in the main characters, Sam and Dean, because they are not dividing their attention with so many side characters.

But the real deal breaker for me with Smallville, was the introduction of the Veritas storyline. I instantly hated it. It re-writes so many long established SV storylines. I don't care what anyone says about how "they planned for it all along" because they didn't. It's obvious. (and I love how you can list so explicitly how obvious it is that it is recently contrived) We all know it boils down to the fact that they needed to come up with a major arc for S7 and apparently didn't really care about stepping all over accepted GROUNDED SV history. That or they were stupid enough to think that we wouldn't notice the discrepancies. But I seriously cannot put much behind that theory because there is NO WAY they could be that stupid. Trust me people, I have let many...MANY plotholes and inconsistancies go on and I took the whole "Who cares, just enjoy the show!" approach but once Veritas hit, I couldn't do it anymore. It was too big. I just couldn't get past how much it screwed up arcs that came before it.

That is one of the reasons why I love your posts xrayvision!! Your arguments against Veritas are brilliant as far as the depth that you get into about the this inconsistancy. I love how analytical you are and I don't think you go too far. I enjoy discussing/debating/analyzing pretty much every aspect of a show. My roomate thinks I'm quite insane (more likely a really big geek). I could probably have an hour long conversation analyzing Sammy's change in haircut from S1 to S2 and why I didn't like it and what the show is trying to imply by changing it, etc. So I know all about discussing in great detail, issues that others find insignificant.

I also enjoy your accurate points about the other aspects of SV (not just the plotholes and inconsistancies). I completely agree when you said And I'm unsatisfied that a character I loved throughout my life (Superman/Clark Kent) is so ignorant, pathetic and even disrespectful with only a season left until he supposedly becomes Superman. This has been a pebble in my shoe for a while now!!! In agreement with you, I guess I'll just repost my thoughts from another thread here at K-site-

Smallville is supposed to be the journey of Clark Kent becoming Superman, right?? Well I have not seen much progression (if any) in fact he has almost regressed from his destiny. Yes, it's not too much to expect that Clark would at first reject his role in coming to earth, it's not even too much to expect that he would try to put it off for a while BUT AT SOME POINT (which has long passed) he should have started to feel in his heart a growing (instinctual) desire to save/help the human race. And little by little he should have solidified his job at the DP and began proactively taking down evil. (even if it a mugging here or a kitten there)

We have seen 7 seasons of Clark fighting his great destiny....and we have what? ONE more season? So we are supposed to believe that Clark fights right up until he just "gives in" to it? I thought SV was supposed to give us an idea about what it was for Clark to grow into his role and I don't think they have done a very good portrayal. I think at some point, maybe around season 4(?), he should have begun to GRADUALLY embrace his destiny. And we could have watched him work swiftly and firmly to Superman status thoughout season 8, ending with him as "Superman". That is, I'm assuming that is what the producers had planned, ending Smallville with Clark Kent as Superman. As it is, in season 7 we have seen Clark recently throw a red cape carelessly on a fence post and walk in the opposite direction. This being symbolic that Clark Kent is STILL firmly opposed to his role. And we're expected to believe that he miraculously decides to do what is good and right and proactive and BECOME Superman in the span of ONE season (season 8)?

I'm just saying that they could have given us more of Clark Kent accepting his destiny without "sacrificing" storyline. So I don't like it when people say "well we wouldn't have 7 seasons if he HAD accepted his destiny". We would have had PLENTY of storylines even if Clark had been more active about moving towards his future as Superman.

As it stands now with only ONE SEASON LEFT(!) Clark knows nothing about journalism (no education), he does NOT work at the DP and most importantly he does not show ANY desire to get into the field of journalism. How are we supposed to equate that with "nearly upon us" Superman? I think Season 5 would have been an appropriate time to increase the involvement of journalism in Clark Kent's life. This will one day be HALF of his identity, his 9-5 job (unless he's out saving someone of course!) and it's COMPLETELY underdeveloped!!

I can't stand how irresponsible and careless they have been with the number of seasons they have had. What a waste!! And now they're scrambling to cram it all into one season. The quality will not be the same as if they would have paced his development properly. I predict a very unsatisfying final season. I think it is definitely going to feel too rushed. I honestly hope I'm wrong, but I don't think they haveleft themselves any choice but to rush through it.

Theshadow, I also wanted to let you know that I've always enjoyed reading your intelligent posts as well!

[Thrill_Seeker]

Yeah, I know the logo was always there. The symbol was retconned into the story though, otherwise they wouldn't have all these inconsistencies had this been planned all along.

It just bothers me that a show I liked so much has been torn apart by such bad writing. They keep trashing Clark and tearing down the character that had been carefully built up during the early years.

Sometimes it seems like they're insulting us and think that we won't remember their previous explanations. I seriously hope the new powers that be are much better than Al/Miles.

I'm not sure if you saw Arctic yet, but that episode really was a letdown for many longtime fans of the show who had been waiting to see how Clark & Lex would end up.

no you just arent able to see the way how they are developing clark in a good way.
this is the most important part of clarks life to learn from.
all the mistakes he makes, where do you think he learns ???
but obviously they cant have him accept his destiny so then the show would be coming to an end if that happened, so really people (ALL people) should just relax and enjoy what the show is. i think everything that has been happening is neccessary to clarks development and the writers certainly havent been trashing us with clarks story

----- Added 4 Minutes later -----

I can't stand how irresponsible and careless they have been with the number of seasons they have had. What a waste!! And now they're scrambling to cram it all into one season. The quality will not be the same as if they would have paced his development properly. I predict a very unsatisfying final season. I think it is definitely going to feel too rushed. I honestly hope I'm wrong, but I don't think they haveleft themselves any choice but to rush through it.

[quote]

first of all, your most likely prediciting wrong, and by the things that you;ve said i can tell that you are one of those people who can never be satisfied.
you just complain, and so many people are sick and tired of it. nothings been wrong with the show, no quality decline or loss of anything, you just havent been able to see whats really going on and see how the writers are developing the characters. if you think that the writers are irresponsible and careless than i should feel ashamed of myself if i were you. you have no idea how hard these people work, and the people who know the characters best are the people who have developed them over the past 7 years.

so there hasnt been anything wrong, YOU just dont like it, which is your own personal opinion and myself and others shouldnt have to listen to your non-stop complaining.
Im sick of defending a show that shouldnt need not one ounce of defending.

[SweetOne]

but obviously they cant have him accept his destiny so then the show would be coming to an end if that happened

I have heard this argument a million times and it just isn't true. I'm not asking for them to write in the script, Clark saying "I have decided to accept my destiny.... I want to become Superman now." But there are a lot of LITLLE ways they could have cleverely shown his evolvement into Superman, possibly without even Clark Kent realizing it. One small way I think they could have eased Clark towards his destiny is with his job in journalism or his "rise to" his job in journalism. There has been virually NO development in that in the last several seasons. It is something that the writers could have used to tell us, "He's getting there people!" But for years, we have seen nothing evident in Clark Kent's life that would gives us the idea that he will one day have a 9-5 job working at the DP.

Another aspect that they could have written in with better planning, is Clark wearing glasses and how it will some day play into his hidden identity. This has not been given the proper attention and now many are wondering exactly how SV's Clark Kent is going to handle his secret identity. And I know the writers may not even get to Clark wearing "the suit" on SV but as Theshadow said, they should at least have an idea...a rational...about how it will work, instead of leaving the viewers wondering how he is going to pull it off.

Just as those anvils are dropped in each show....the forshadowing of who Clark will become, there are definitely ways that the writers could have evolved Clark's character without really having him "officially" accept his destiny.

One of the main areas that was ill-planned, that was a great way to show Clark's growth into Superman (but for the most part I'm actually not blaming the writers) was him discovering his powers. He developed them so early on in the series that it really gave the writers no choice but to dangle the final "flying" one in front of us for 4 seasons. If they had been placed further apart in the series we might have seen a steadier more balanced progression of Superman. As it is, we saw him progress..progress...progress....in season 1-3(4), and then stay the same for the rest of the series. I think his development of powers had a huge impact on how the viewers percive his advancement (or lack thereof) as Superman. LOL The one thing I have to point out it is that if the producers weren't so determined to stretch this series out (beyond what it should have been IMO) we would not have had this problem!!!

and by the things that you've said I can tell that you are one of those people who can never be satisfied.

Actually if I was one of "those people" I would be "nitpicking" as you say, every TV show I watched. But I don't. There are many shows I have almost nothing but praises for. I'm going to call an apple an apple. If it's a solid show, I'll call it a solid show. I'll give it the credit it deserves. I was very satisfied with Smallville earlier on, and I am plenty satisified by several other shows on TV right now. But SV has been written too sloppily for me to do that, and I was saying in my previous post that SV's flaws just seem to be all the more noticeable because of the superior quality of the shows around it.

so there hasnt been anything wrong, YOU just dont like it, which is your own personal opinion and myself and others shouldnt have to listen to your non-stop complaining. Im sick of defending a show that shouldnt need not one ounce of defending.

Correct, I "just don't don't like it". And isn't that what these boards are for?? To discuss the show and allow everyone a chance to voice their opinion. You shouldn't have to listen to it and you don't have to defend it. I'm pretty sure any threads that I have posted my so called "complaining" in have been appropriate ones to do so in. I don't just go into any thread and start an argument with people about how the show sucks, but yeah...there are specific threads out there to discuss what we as the viewers aren't too happy with, and we have the right to. My question is, why do you go into these threads in the first place?? We aren't actually forcing you to read our posts. You are right, "you shouldn't have to listen"....so don't. There are plenty of threads here where you can talk about how entertaining this show is for you. And we do not ask you to defend it, we aren't demanding you to tell us what makes this show "so great". We simply want a place where we can meet and under common ground dicuss the issues we have with this show.

I really am sorry, that you are so upset by our posts. But unfortunately you can't change people so the best way to go is to just avoid these threads...

[Humdinger]

I've always enjoyed Xray's comments, he brings up salient points about the shortcomings of Smallville that need to be said, as well as compliments. But MBrittan I think your original comment belongs in a PM rather than a thread. It looks as though you're criticising Xray when you look at the thread title and many people are not gonna read through long posts to see exactly what is going on here even though the actual thread has developed into an episode discussion.

[jimmyolsenblues]

This thread is closed because threads about analyzing posters is against the rules.

- rule 10) Psychoanalyzing other fans or posters views

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