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It's supposed to be his worst nightmare... seemed like a walk in the park!

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  • #61
    I've been following this thread for a while now and couldn't be silent any more. I don't know why everyone is complaining about Clark not showing enough fear when he was trapped in the cage or about him being too calm when confronting Lionel. I know it's all in the eye of the viewers but I actually did see all the things some of you obviously haven't.

    I personally thought Tom did a geat job with portraying Clark in Traveler. Most of the time Clark had to endure much pain. There was not much space to show any more empotions but he did. He was afraid and I could clearly see it. When Clark awoke in the cage he didn't know where he was, so he was looking around, trying to figure out where he was. If he would have shown fear that moment people would have complained he's a wimp. Later when Pierce had started the torture by amping up the radiation of the K-lined cage Clark was afraid because he didn't know what was happening and if he'll ever get out of there. There were some nice shots of Clark looking in the surveillance cameras where his fear and despair were palpable. I'm also with BadToad Clark didn't give up, he tried to maintain his dignity when facing Pierce and also after Pierce hid in the control room again. Clark didn't give up to get back on his feet.

    You could clearly see that he already was weakened by the prolonged exposure of the Kryptonite when Pierce was at the cage. Clark was slightly swaying, he had trouble standing on his feet but he wanted to show he's strong. But because Clark didn't know who he was dealing with and what Pierce is gonna do with him he kept his distance despite there was no need because of the glass between them.

    In my opinion Clark has two worst nightmares. The first one is to get caught by the government or Lex (for 33.1) and being experimented on and the second one is to be completely alone and that he might be the reason for everyone being gone.

    Finally I loved the confrontation scene between Lionel and Clark. It was a strong performance of Tom. Clark was angry with Lionel, no doubt about that, but he was also disappointed by his betrayal. It was controlled anger. It hurt Lionel more that CLark wasn't shouting at him. Clark's eyes spoke volumes. Further Clark hit Lionel twice during the conversation. First when he shouted (yes, he shouted) at him "You're not my father" and the second time when he finally said quite calmly "No, you're not". It was the way Clark said it that gave me chills. It must have been like a stab in Lionels heart, he lost CLark's trust. I thought Clark had all the time the upper hand without shouting or being loud. Being loud wouldn't have been Clark. To me people who get loud during conversations or arguments are desperate and can't really underline their opinions. I think if Clark would have shouted his anger it would be too much over the top.

    That's why I thought Tom did a perfect job.

    The only thing I agree is that Clark didn't thank Kara enough just after she saved him. I think that was bad writing or maybe they had a scene like that and it got lost in the cutting room.

    Yasise, I agree with you, when I saw the scene the second time that was exactly my thought, they used it twice. But I alsoi can remember that someone said in the thread it was Tom's bad acting to do it twice. Well, as a great Tom fan I'm probably biased. I liked his performance. And don't forget it's a TV show and not a movie like Superman I - III, or SM returns. There's a much more limited time table for shooting a TV show.
    Last edited by WathorigHH; 03-23-2008, 01:58 PM.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Este
      I think that several 'cage' parts weren't Tom's best acting. Maybe it was difficult for him, I don't know. I didn't want Clark to completely break down and sob in terror and pain, or plead or beg or anything. But, yes, I would have liked to see more close up scenes and actually see more emotion. Then I watched the episode again and Clark's constant attempts to just get up struck me as fear. Not terror, but mind-numbing fear nonetheless. Instead of trying to keep the little strength he had left, he just wanted to get away, able or not, almost as a terrified animal, incapable of reasoning. That's the way I saw it, at least. As you say, it is a matter of taste. And I don't think Lionel would have been able to bear to see Clark break down in that cell. Even as it is, it seems to me that Lionel managed to hurt himself more than the almost fatal levels of Kryptonite harmed Clark.
      i do agree with you here. script wise, him getting up was a sign of his need to see what was going on because he was scared. thats fine at first. but not all the way through... that whole scene where peirce calls him a freak would have been so much more effective if he'd been say sitting with his arms wrapped round his knees in a defensive position, or even if he had to be standing up, do something to seem a little defensive

      ----- Added 40 Seconds later -----

      Originally posted by Yasise
      No, of course not - that would have been too much.

      Yeah, me, too.

      Did anyone recognize that they used the same shot twice? I mean in that cage, when this psycho turns up th elevel and Clark turns over on his back and lifts up his hips?? I'm sure that shot was used twice and it surprised me. But I might be wrong and the two shots are only similar
      i think it was genuinely just bad acting... Tom used the same pain reaction (falling and arching his back) twice... dissapointed me

      ----- Added 8 Minutes later -----

      Originally posted by WathorigHH
      I've been following this thread for a while now and couldn't be silent any more. I don't know why everyone is complaining about Clark not showing enough fear when he was trapped in the cage or about him being too calm when confronting Lionel. I know it's all in the eye of the viewers but I actually did see all the things some of you obviously haven't.

      I personally thought Tom did a geat job with portraying Clark in Traveler. Most of the time Clark had to endure much pain. There was not much space to show any more empotions but he did. He was afraid and I could clearly see it. When Clark awoke in the cage he didn't know where he was, so he was looking around, trying to figure out where he was. If he would have shown fear that moment people would have complained he's a wimp. Later when Pierce had started the torture by amping up the radiation of the K-lined cage Clark was afraid because he didn't know what was happening and if he'll ever get out of there. There were some nice shots of Clark looking in the surveillance cameras where his fear and despair were palpable. I'm also with BadToad Clark didn't give up, he tried to maintain his dignity when facing Pierce and also after Pierce hid in the control room again. Clark didn't give up to get back on his feet.

      You could clearly see that he already was weakened by the prolonged exposure of the Kryptonite when Pierce was at the cage. Clark was slightly swaying, he had trouble standing on his feet but he wanted to show he's strong. But because Clark didn't know who he was dealing with and what Pierce is gonna do with him he kept his distance despite there was no need because of the glass between them.

      In my opinion Clark has two worst nightmares. The first one is to get caught by the government or Lex (for 33.1) and being experimented on and the second one is to be completely alone and that he might be the reason for everyone being gone.

      Finally I loved the confrontation scene between Lionel and Clark. It was a strong performance of Tom. Clark was angry with Lionel, no doubt about that, but he was also disappointed by his betrayal. It was controlled anger. It hurt Lionel more that CLark wasn't shouting at him. Clark's eyes spoke volumes. Further Clark hit Lionel twice during the conversation. First when he shouted (yes, he shouted) at him "You're not my father" and the second time when he finally said quite calmly "No, you're not". It was the way Clark said it that gave me chills. It must have been like a stab in Lionels heart, he lost CLark's trust. I thought Clark had all the time the upper hand without shouting or being loud. Being loud wouldn't have been Clark. To me people who get loud during conversations or arguments are desperate and can't really underline their opinions. I think if Clark would have shouted his anger it would be too much over the top.

      That's why I thought Tom did a perfect job.

      The only thing I agree is that Clark didn't thank Kara enough just after she saved him. I think that was bad writing or maybe they had a scene like that and it got lost in the cutting room.

      Yasise, I agree with you, when I saw the scene the second time that was exactly my thought, they used it twice. But I alsoi can remember that someone said in the thread it was Tom's bad acting to do it twice. Well, as a great Tom fan I'm probably biased. I liked his performance. And don't forget it's a TV show and not a movie like Superman I - III, or SM returns. There's a much more limited time table for shooting a TV show.
      i don't think Tom is a bad actor, that's why i was so dissapointed. he's done some really good performances as Clark.

      the more i post on here the more i think that Roswell just set the standard so high... when Max was caught by the government, he paced back and forth, his breathing was heavy, there were tears of fear in his eyes. the camera work showed the room spinning, he was so scared. he sat down in the corner of his padded white room and held himself. when he was questioned by peirce, he kept his cool, just acted like a student from Roswell High who didnt know what was going on, and as more and more was revealed and the more experiments they put him through, you could see him slowly giving up. and he came out of that.

      then when he confronted peirce after, when peirce had been captured by them, he showed his hatred by repeating the same threats he had been subjected to with a clear bitterness in his voice... he didnt have to yell, but you could feel the anger and disgust.

      when i first heard about this episode, and that Lionel was going to hold Clark in a kryptonite cage i saw a hundred fanfictions coming true

      i guess i just have to adjust to the fact that this wasn't his worst fear come true, this was just a few hours of kryptonite torture...
      Last edited by Hopefulsuicide; 03-23-2008, 02:25 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Hopefulsuicide
        .....................i think it was genuinely just bad acting... Tom used the same pain reaction (falling and arching his back) twice... dissapointed me
        ...
        Sorry, but I've to disagree here. I don't think, that Tom did the same movement twice, it WAS the same shot! They obviuosly used it twice, for whatever reason it may be.
        I agreed with a lot you've said, but this is just not true. Please watch it again, it is really the same shot - not Tom doing the same all over again.
        I guess it's an editing mistake or whatever.

        ----- Added 18 Minutes later -----

        Originally posted by WathorigHH
        .............Yasise, I agree with you, when I saw the scene the second time that was exactly my thought, they used it twice. But I alsoi can remember that someone said in the thread it was Tom's bad acting to do it twice. Well, as a great Tom fan I'm probably biased. I liked his performance. And don't forget it's a TV show and not a movie like Superman I - III, or SM returns. There's a much more limited time table for shooting a TV show.
        First, even if I'm repeating myself, I'm watching Smallville only because of Tom and because I like the Superman story, so I'm as biased as you are IMO, Tom is the most ideal choice for the Superman / Clark Kent character ever!
        I love Tom's acting sooo much and because of that, I think, that it could have been a little better than it was. He surely could have done it. I explained this before, so I won't repeat myself here again.
        So far, season 7 is not one of my favourite seasons, but there are three episodes, which I loved and those were "Bizarro", "Persona" and now "Traveler".

        And yes, you're right, it is a TV Show with limited time and budget, but to be in the 7th season speaks for itself, I guess.
        It is a wonderful show and I love it very much. But still....different people have different taste. Some loved it this way, others wished there would have been more emotions.
        Well, it's impossible to please everybody 100%, isn't it?
        Last edited by Yasise; 03-23-2008, 03:26 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Yasise
          Sorry, but I've to disagree here. I don't think, that Tom did the same movement twice, it WAS the same shot! They obviuosly used it twice, for whatever reason it may be.
          I agreed with a lot you've said, but this is just not true. Please watch it again, it is really the same shot - not Tom doing the same all over again.
          I guess it's an editing mistake or whatever.
          put your weapon down i surrender



          nah your prob right, i wasnt paying that much attention... though i am fighting the urge to re watch it just to make sure LOL

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Hopefulsuicide
            when i first heard about this episode, and that Lionel was going to hold Clark in a kryptonite cage i saw a hundred fanfictions coming true
            I know what you mean because I'm an avid reader of these TC-fanfictions. My expectations were high too. I think it would have been better when they would have stretched the imprisonment over two episodes and would have concentrated more on Clark. In Traveler Clark had barely his screen time.

            Comment


            • #66
              LOL true... i did notice this. he had very few lines to work with, and very little screen time.

              i'm also an avid reader of TC... i don't think anyone would have complained if Clark acted like he was scared and going through mental trauma as well as physical... i just cant see anyone coming up with a good arguement as to why this makes him less superman

              Comment


              • #67
                i'm also an avid reader of TC... i don't think anyone would have complained if Clark acted like he was scared and going through mental trauma as well as physical... i just cant see anyone coming up with a good arguement as to why this makes him less superman
                How about because we FLAT OUT don't agree with your assessement? I did see fear...you didn't. So, who is right or wrong? Neither. You have your opinion and I have mine. You can post over and over again how disappointed you were, but for those of us who were NOT the least bit disappointed in how Clark conducted himself, it still isn't going to become true for us.

                For me, Clark showing strength made him more Superman. For me, Clark not showing weakness to this sadistic animal made him more Superman. For me, Clark trying to face this ordeal on his feet as much as he was physically able makes him more Superman.

                I don't need Clark weeping and rocking himself in the corner (for which he would've been savaged on this board for doing) to understand that he was afraid. But instead of giving into that fear, he tried to stay strong and resilient.

                And I thought Tom did it all brilliantly. If he had more screentime, then maybe there would've been more time to carry out the details of the imprisonment and torture, but not only wasn't there time, I suspect that TPTB may have felt that was a bit much for the viewers. SV isn't a TC fanfic, after all.

                Honestly, what arguement is it that you think is going to sway you? You've made up your mind, and thats fine. But the fact of the matter is that there are those of us you just didn't view the episode, and the Clark scenes, the same way. I've read many reviews of this episode where people have talked about Clark's strength, and his ability to maintain his dignity, and finding that admirable. You thought he sucked. Different strokes for different folks.

                All I can say is that I like the idea of MY Superman acting the way Clark did when imprisoned and tortured. It worked for me. YMMV

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                • #68
                  actually, he didnt really have any time to look scared.
                  he was being tortured the whole time. I think clark looked perfectly scared to me.
                  and your pretty dumb if you think that, that was a walk in the park.
                  that would have been the most painful and strongest amounts of time clark has been exposed to green k.
                  and especially for that long.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by BadToad
                    How about because we FLAT OUT don't agree with your assessement? I did see fear...you didn't. So, who is right or wrong? Neither. You have your opinion and I have mine. You can post over and over again how disappointed you were, but for those of us who were NOT the least bit disappointed in how Clark conducted himself, it still isn't going to become true for us.

                    For me, Clark showing strength made him more Superman. For me, Clark not showing weakness to this sadistic animal made him more Superman. For me, Clark trying to face this ordeal on his feet as much as he was physically able makes him more Superman.

                    I don't need Clark weeping and rocking himself in the corner (for which he would've been savaged on this board for doing) to understand that he was afraid. But instead of giving into that fear, he tried to stay strong and resilient.

                    And I thought Tom did it all brilliantly. If he had more screentime, then maybe there would've been more time to carry out the details of the imprisonment and torture, but not only wasn't there time, I suspect that TPTB may have felt that was a bit much for the viewers. SV isn't a TC fanfic, after all.

                    Honestly, what arguement is it that you think is going to sway you? You've made up your mind, and thats fine. But the fact of the matter is that there are those of us you just didn't view the episode, and the Clark scenes, the same way. I've read many reviews of this episode where people have talked about Clark's strength, and his ability to maintain his dignity, and finding that admirable. You thought he sucked. Different strokes for different folks.

                    All I can say is that I like the idea of MY Superman acting the way Clark did when imprisoned and tortured. It worked for me. YMMV
                    you seem to be reacting as though i implied that i couldnt underdstand your opinion. in actual fact what i said was that i didnt believe anyone would have considered him less of a hero for showing fear. i completely respect that this episode is a matter of opinion, as you would have noticed if you had read my previous posts.

                    i am not trying to sway anyone. i'm just posting my opinion, and we are continuing to debate the topic.

                    i dont think he should have been weeping or rocking in a corner either LOL (although i'd fight anyone who said he was less superman if he did), i'm just used to a different standard of acting in scenes of this nature, having watched alot of shows were people are saught after or captured by organisations (roswell high, lois and clark, heroes, alias, x-files etc).

                    p.s. what does YMMV stand for LOL

                    ----- Added 3 Minutes later -----

                    Originally posted by Thrill_Seeker
                    actually, he didnt really have any time to look scared.
                    he was being tortured the whole time. I think clark looked perfectly scared to me.
                    and your pretty dumb if you think that, that was a walk in the park.
                    that would have been the most painful and strongest amounts of time clark has been exposed to green k.
                    and especially for that long.
                    please dont call me dumb because i dont share your opinion

                    it's rude

                    the name of my thread is in reference to the way he reacted straight after being held in that cage... he didnt seem shaken to me when he thanked Kara, didnt seem shaken when he was talking to patricia... and i didnt find his emotion came across when taking to Lionel... therefore i felt the whole incident was treated like it was nothing

                    yet againt i find myself having to say, that i have said nothing about the lack of physical pain. yes it would be the worst kryptonite enduced pain he had had ever. i think it should have been a more traumatic experiance phsychologically for Clark to live out his worst nightmare
                    Last edited by Hopefulsuicide; 03-23-2008, 08:00 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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                    • #70
                      p.s. what does YMMV stand for LOL
                      Your Mileage May Vary

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                      • #71
                        okay cheers

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Yasise
                          But, as I said in other threads before, it seems lately, that he doesn't put so much emotions into Clark anymore, since season 7 began. Maybe lack of enthusiasm for Smallville after so many years...???:
                          Me too, I watch Smallville because of Tom Welling, mostly. Even when the show have sinned by a general lack of heart, or awkward dialogue, or action for action, without any real interest for their characters, I always enjoyed Tom's acting. I kind of aligned myself with him and his Clark rarely failed to move me. But this season, I feel that something has changed. I'm willing to attribute the awkward scenes to bad writing, clumsy directing, anything but Tom. But... oh, I just hope that we are wrong and that he snaps out of whatever it is.


                          Originally posted by Yasise
                          Did anyone recognize that they used the same shot twice? I mean in that cage, when this psycho turns up th elevel and Clark turns over on his back and lifts up his hips?? I'm sure that shot was used twice and it surprised me. But I might be wrong and the two shots are only similar
                          Yes! I couldn't believe my eyes. That's not bad acting, even though I don't find the depiction of pain in that particular shot convincing. It's bad editing.
                          Strange, Smallville usually has high quality standards. Maybe the strike somehow affected the whole crew?

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Hopefulsuicide
                            please dont call me dumb because i dont share your opinion

                            it's rude

                            the name of my thread is in reference to the way he reacted straight after being held in that cage... he didnt seem shaken to me when he thanked Kara, didnt seem shaken when he was talking to patricia... and i didnt find his emotion came across when taking to Lionel... therefore i felt the whole incident was treated like it was nothing

                            yet againt i find myself having to say, that i have said nothing about the lack of physical pain. yes it would be the worst kryptonite enduced pain he had had ever. i think it should have been a more traumatic experiance phsychologically for Clark to live out his worst nightmare
                            no meaning to offend, i was just meaning that i really think clark was absolutely terrified, he just didnt show it. somone said it before. it would be a little lame if he was stuttering and shaking or whatever it is that makes him look scared.
                            he was tryin to be brave. and i mean, he really was being tortured the whole time.
                            i guess he could of seen a little more traumatised after the cage, and a bit more "edgy"
                            but it didnt make a difference to me

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Hopefulsuicide
                              put your weapon down i surrender



                              nah your prob right, i wasnt paying that much attention... though i am fighting the urge to re watch it just to make sure LOL
                              To put my weapon down, I've to find it first....

                              Originally posted by WathorigHH
                              I know what you mean because I'm an avid reader of these TC-fanfictions. My expectations were high too. I think it would have been better when they would have stretched the imprisonment over two episodes and would have concentrated more on Clark. In Traveler Clark had barely his screen time.
                              Yeah, "Traveler" strechted over two episodes, would have been great!! Sometimes they are rushing the story so much, you really have to rewatch it in order to get all the information and all the emotions. Not that I mind rewatching it...*lol*

                              Originally posted by Hopefulsuicide
                              ...................the name of my thread is in reference to the way he reacted straight after being held in that cage... he didnt seem shaken to me when he thanked Kara, didnt seem shaken when he was talking to patricia... and i didnt find his emotion came across when taking to Lionel... therefore i felt the whole incident was treated like it was nothing

                              yet againt i find myself having to say, that i have said nothing about the lack of physical pain. yes it would be the worst kryptonite enduced pain he had had ever. i think it should have been a more traumatic experiance phsychologically for Clark to live out his worst nightmare
                              I agree, again, especially after having watched it for the x-time now. Soooo much kryptonite for so long around Clark must have had more effect on him, even after Kara saved him. He shouldn't been able to get up right after the cage was gone. You can call me pedantic, but that's how I think about it. The other times a little rock makes him unable to even lift his arm, and in a kryptonite cage he is able to get up on his feet again and again...?
                              Sorry, but that's inconsistency concerning that kryptonite stuff in Smallville. That's nothing new to us, but I'm always hoping that they will fix it someday.

                              And the talk with Lionel in his office...?? As I watched it for the first time, I thought it was good. But the second time I thought, in fact only Lionel was good and believable but Clark was too calm. I don't mean, he should have shouted at Lionel right from the beginning, but Clark's first sentences were just too...calm. O.k. he was controlling his anger and so on, but, I liked to see at least more of that look in his face, he had in "Hero", when he said to Lionel "We have to talk!" WOW!!!

                              That was the expression and the voice I missed in that scene of "Traveler". Tom totally nailed it in that one sentence in "Hero" but I didn't feel the same in that Clark/Lionel confrontation in the office, hands down.

                              He was too calm and there was no reason for him to be soooo "controlled", as he just lived through one of his worst nightmares. Even Superman shows his anger and that makes him not a less Superman. Showing his emotions makes Superman the hero we love.

                              Originally posted by Este
                              Me too, I watch Smallville because of Tom Welling, mostly. Even when the show have sinned by a general lack of heart, or awkward dialogue, or action for action, without any real interest for their characters, I always enjoyed Tom's acting. I kind of aligned myself with him and his Clark rarely failed to move me. But this season, I feel that something has changed. I'm willing to attribute the awkward scenes to bad writing, clumsy directing, anything but Tom. But... oh, I just hope that we are wrong and that he snaps out of whatever it is.

                              Yes! I couldn't believe my eyes. That's not bad acting, even though I don't find the depiction of pain in that particular shot convincing. It's bad editing.
                              Strange, Smallville usually has high quality standards. Maybe the strike somehow affected the whole crew?
                              Yes, I hope so, too!

                              And to the editing "mistake": well, I don't have an explanation for it, I was as surprised as you were. I'm sure that never happened before and it was maybe due to the strike.

                              Originally posted by Thrill_Seeker
                              no meaning to offend, i was just meaning that i really think clark was absolutely terrified, he just didnt show it. somone said it before. it would be a little lame if he was stuttering and shaking or whatever it is that makes him look scared.
                              he was tryin to be brave. and i mean, he really was being tortured the whole time.
                              i guess he could of seen a little more traumatised after the cage, and a bit more "edgy" but it didnt make a difference to me
                              Yes, that's my point: He should have been "a little more traumatised after the cage, and a bit more "edgy", that would have been more believable. But as soon as he was out of the cage, it was like he was back from school, as if nothing as bad as this has happend at all. This is just weird!

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Not like a walk in a park, but the whole effect of the Kryptonite cage could have been handled better.

                                For those of you who watched "Lois & Clark" you may remember that at the end of the first season Lex Luthor managed to trap Superman in a Kryptonite cage and when Supes managed to get out he was way too weak to do anything.

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