The real Clark on ice - Who froze him?

[Imzadia]

Originally posted by STFanatic
The trailer for next week was awesome

YEAH!! I saw it, too. It WAS awesome. However, it said that the New episode is scheduled to air on Jan. 31. ...not next week.

[STFanatic]

Whoops, I meant "Next Episode"

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by litew8
Your first suggestion seems (to me) out-weigh your second. You said that it was Clark's defiance that made Jor-El take away his powers. Why did Jor-El take away Clark's powers? Because Clark did not listen to him. Clark disobeyed Jor-El, so Jor-El took away his powers. That sounds like a direct punishment. Jor-El took his powers away because Clark did not listen to him.

I have to revise my opinion. After checking out Clark's conversation with Jor-El in Lionel in Hidden, where Jor-El told him that it was Clark's choice to relinquish his powers. Other than the fake Kara, Jor-El hasn't lied to Clark, and I think it was Clark who chose to give up his powers, though he may not have been informed of the exact consequences of not returning. He was however told that the consequences would be grave and knowing that Jor-El is the one telling him this, he should have listened.

Originally posted by litew8
The consequences that occurred after Clark had his powers taken away from him (by Jor-El), were consequences after the fact. The fact remains - Jor-El took his powers away because Clark did not listen. If what you are saying is accurrate, Jor-El created the consequences (for that instance). The consequences would not have happened if Jor-El hadn't taken Clark's powers away for disobeying him (Jor-El). And it would imply that Jor-El had foresight of those consequences if he were to take away his powers.

Well, with my revised statement of Clark being the one to give up his powers, I'm saying that Clark created the consequences. The main consequence was Clark losing his powers. Everything else that followed after that were secondary & tertiary consequences of the main one of Clark giving up his powers. So in the revised statement, I would say Jor-El had the insight of what would happen if Clark was to give up his powers by choice.

Originally posted by litew8
Now fast forward to the present.
If it is anything similar to when Jor-El took Clark's powers away (when Clark died), it is because Jor-El created the memorandum in conjunction to the foresight.

- THEN -
The first time, Clark did not obey Jor-El.
Jor-El took Clark's powers away. (THE CONSEQUENCE)
Clark died.
Clark was brought back to life.
In exchange (afterward consequence), Johnathan died.

This changes now due to that piece I found from Hidden. It's now like this:

-Clark disobeyed & didn't return on time after being told that not doing so would result in grave consequences
-Clark in not returning on time & knowing Jor-El's "grave consequences" warning by choice gave up his powers (THE CONSEQUENCE)
-Clark died (a secondary consequence).
-Clark was brought back to life & doing so meant someone had to die
-In exchange, Jonathan died (a tertiary consequence)

Originally posted by litew8
- NOW -
Clark disobeyed Jor-El's direction.
Jor-El said it cannot go without consequence.
Jor-El froze clark inside of the FOS. (THE CONSEQUENCE)
BiZaRrO is released and controlled by Jor-El.
Clark sees what a fool he's been for the last 7 years.

By going back to the revised "THEN" example & seeing how Jor-El did not cause or enact the consequence on Clark, I'm showing that the consequence of disobeying Jor-El in that example was not one that Jor-El imposed on Clark, but one that Clark unleashed on himself and those around him.

Therefore, I'm saying that like in the revised "THEN" example, the consequence was Clark's fault. If Bizarro was released thanks to a series of events that would not have been possible had Clark not disobeyed Jor-El, then it's Clark's fault and anything Bizarro did thereafter becomes a byproduct of Clark's disobedience.

So I'm saying Bizarro trapped Clark in the crystal of the FOS as the main consequence Jor-El was referring to at the very end of Blue. I do not think Jor-El can control Bizarro. He couldn't even control Clark until massive brainwashing/training that took place between Covenant & Crusade and that ended when the Kal-El persona became the recessive one. Bizarro did not go through that same brainwashing process.

If Jor-El did release Bizarro and is controlling him to find out Brainiac's whereabouts so he can help resurrect him, then Jor-El is evil and has no business trying to guide Clark. And I know Jor-El isn't evil.

By the way, I provided more examples of Clark disobeying Jor-El and how in none of those occasions it was Jor-El punishing Clark:

http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=3533448#post3533448

The one I left out because it wasn't Clark's disobedience was the fake Kara incident because that was a result of Jonathan breaking his deal with Jor-El.

[Kay-Rill]

Jor-El

I have to say Jor-El because the look on Clarks face did not seem too suprised.

[Kay-Rill]

Ha! I was Right!

[jazel]

voted after the airing,lol
started a thread IF you guessed it, cool that somebody had the poll going.

[MixTKO]

I would have to rewatch the episode but I thought Bizarro said Manhunter frooze Clark in the FOS. Anybody else hear that.

[berniepooh]

I would have to rewatch the episode but I thought Bizarro said Manhunter frooze Clark in the FOS. Anybody else hear that.

No. I heard him say Jor El kept him there. And I've already watched it a second time. the first time through there was a lot of traffic and people talking in the living room and I mssed too much to catch all the dialog the first run thru.

Good episode.

[MixTKO]

Yep he said Jor-el kept him there. It was a scene where Biz tells Brainiac MM kept him prisoner that I was thinking about.

[alejandrita439]

jorel :P

[xrayvision]

I agree that it's Jor-El who froze Clark, but he would Never 'Kill' Clark. He's only ever 'served' to give Clark guidance and information about his heritage. He would know a whole lot more by now if he would've visited the FOS more often. I don't think that BrainIAC or Zor-El could have any Control over the FOS.

In S5, when M. Fine was trying to manipulate Clark into releasing Zod, Clark was the only one who could utilize the Crystal Control device. Zor-El told Kara in "Blue" that 'only Kal-El could remove the Blue crystal that Clark had placed in the Crystal console." Another thing, Jor-El instantly knew that Clark had the Blue Crystal in his possession when he first arrived at the FOS in "Blue", AND who had designed it. The FOS was probably designed to only respond to Clark's particular DNA, and only through deceptive manipulation can it be influenced by anyone else.

So, those are my opinions and theories. I think that Jor-El is the one who froze Clark, but I'm hoping it's a process that will be beneficial to Clark in helping him move closer toward accepting his destiny. Maybe he's downloading Clark with some much needed information while he's holding him captive. Otherwise, it'll be just a stupid waste of time, IMHO.

@Imzadia:

Actually Clark was not the only one who was able to control the crystal console in the FoS. In season 6 we saw Raya playing with the crystals and drawing the last of the Fortress' power to send Baern a beacon that would summon him there so Clark & her could fight him away from populated areas. And I think Zod in season 9 also was able to use the console, but don't quote me on that. The reason why Brainiac couldn't is because touching it would destroy him, which is why he needed Clark to insert the black crystal in Solitude. As for what Zor-El said about Clark being the only one who could remove the blue crystal, I think that was because he's the one who inserted it in the first place, so it was probably a matter of only the one who inserted it could remove it. If only Clark had access to the console in the FoS, then him giving Kara the blue crystal made no sense since he intended her to not only gather the 3 stones and create the FoS, but also to insert the blue crystal once it was built. And even though it was Clark who united the stones and created the FoS, Raya still had access to it so it wasn't a matter of whoever creating the FoS having exclusive access to it. Hell, even Lex in Arctic was able to insert the orb in the console and destroyed the FoS.

I watched this episode again recently and in hindsight it must have been Jor-El who froze him because in Persona Bizarro meets Milton Fine and tells him he's not sure where Clark is and how when he got back and went to the farm, Clark was gone. So as stupid as I thought it would be for Bizarro to go straight to the farm and assume Clark's life without checking on his whereabouts, that's exactly what he did. This also means that Bizarro couldn't have gone to the FoS prior to when he went there in Persona because he would have known Clark was trapped there and Jor-El would have unfrozen Clark earlier or never froze him to begin with. So Jor-El probably didn't know about Bizarro's return as weird as that sounds when he knows pretty much everything that's going on usually, and only unfroze Clark when he appeared in the Fortress. And he definitely didn't know about Milton Fine because he said nothing to Clark about him. Clark didn't even know it was Fine as Lionel who told him about Dax-Ur and the blue kryptonite weakness of Bizarro's. So Jor-El froze him, probably as a punishment and was planning to keep him that way until all his family & friends either died or were much older and had moved on with their lives, but his plan was brought to a halt when Bizarro returned.

I think they really missed out on a lot of opportunities in this episode. Jor-El's AI was shown to be really sloppy in what he did. I mean Clark inserting the blue crystal in Blue was extremely stupid, but did Jor-El really expect that nobody would come looking for Clark for years or that no threat would pop up that would require Clark to stop it? It would have been much better if the consequences Jor-El referred to at the end of Blue was not the pending punishment he had for Clark but instead him about to warn Clark about the looming threats and Clark agreeing to finally get his training but being frozen in a crystal as a result of standing in a pillar of energy like we saw him do in Arrival that would crystallize as a result of Bizarro returning and deactivating the FoS, causing it to freeze Clark in the process. Then in this episode, instead of Jor-El freeing Clark as he did, Jor-El would use the last of the FoS' energy while in its deactivated state to free Clark to stop Bizarro and reactivate the FoS. That would have made Jor-El look much better by not having him be so careless, sloppy & ruthless with his son, it would have shown trust he'd place in Clark, it would have shown Clark finally meeting up to Jor-El's expectations after his massive blunder in Blue, and it would have made Bizarro look much more threatening and a better purpose than be Lana's love slave. They could have shown Bizarro using Clark's friends for his own agenda and then hurting them and sending them to the hospital to show how he wants to use what Clark has and then trash it.