Why would she say that? Poor Lex.

[Dor el]

Originally posted by dru-zod2501
For the longest time Clark was a poor example of the unconditional love. Maybe I'm thinking about it from a different POV, but you can't really love unconditionally while hiding the very essence of who you are from the other person, that proved to me that he was infatuated, but at the end of the day he didn't have any faith in her. and after a few years it started to look like everyone EXCEPT Clark could see how irrational he was being about it

Originally posted by samanta
I couldn't agree more.

I disagree. I think Clark is very capable of unconditional love. You don't have to "trust" someone to love them. You don't have to divulge your deepest darkest secrets to prove your love. You are not required to answer every question put forth by the person you love. Love is an emotion that often is illogical, but very potent. I believe that Clark, above all, puts others's needs before his own. Yes, he has desires or dreams, and sometimes he imagines what having his desires fulfilled would be like, but in the end, Clark does what is right. Is he perfect? Nope. Does he make bad judgement calls? Yep. But, mistakes and lapses in judgement do not preclude love. I realize that this is likely an unpopular opinion, but it is my opinion and as such is not subject to contestation.



Lana seems to define love by how well others do what she wants them to do or how gabby they can be with her. Lana is challenged by love. She desperately needs and seeks love, yet it seems like she doesn't recognize love or she mistakes other things (like indulgment) for love. Given what she thinks she knows about what Lex has done to her, and there are some compelling reasons for her to think Lex has caused her harm, then I feel that Lana was justified in what she said to Lex. Lex has, in fact, been a very naughty boy

[Kid Collins]

Re: Why would she say that? Poor Lex.

Originally posted by Pink Sweater
"You're not capable of love, Lex. You never were."

Since I think that Lex really does love Lana, just think how much that statement would crush him.

Anyone else think she went too far?

I thought it wasn't harsh enough.

Lex faked her pregnancy, caused her alot of pain by making her think she lost the baby. He did this to make her marry him. And to make sure that she doesn't go back to Clark. Lex thought of her as a possession. Something to hold over on Clark.

Lana had every right to give Lex a severe verbal beatdown.

Heck, she doesn't even know that Lex was behind Simone the chick who tried to seduce Clark and made him break up with her.

[Pink Sweater]

CLARK

I think that Clark is capable of unconditional love. Even after Lana marries his friend-turned-nemesis (before he discovered the reason), he still loved her.
Before that, he was willing to let her hate him in order to protect her.
He revealed his secret to her, even though it may have driven her away.

I'm still on the fence when it comes to Clark not telling Lana her secret and whether or not that affects the unconditionality of his love.

LANA

Based on her actions in the show, I don't know if Lana is capable of unconditional love. As Kal26 said, "unconditional love is when you love someone no matter what they do," etc. But in Nemesis, Lana says, "If someone lied to me like that, they would lose my love forever."
Also, she flip-flops when it comes to opinions. One week she sees the good in people affected by kryptonite, the next week she wants to kill them. One week, she urges Clark to be honest, the next she's lying to someone.

LEX

Lex could have been able to love someone unconditionally at one time. But I think because of his circumstances and the fact that he finally gave into them, he is slowly building up walls around his heart and never letting anyone get close enough.

[Kid Collins]

Originally posted by Pink Sweater


LANA

Based on her actions in the show, I don't know if Lana is capable of unconditional love. As Kal26 said, "unconditional love is when you love someone no matter what they do," etc. But in Nemesis, Lana says, "If someone lied to me like that, they would lose my love forever."

Of course she's capable of unconditional love. She married Lex for Clark! Sacrificied her singlehood for him.

And unconditional love does not mean loving somebody who intentionally set out to hurt you, like Lex has done. Only a moron would stay with someone who did that.

Also, she flip-flops when it comes to opinions. One week she sees the good in people affected by kryptonite, the next week she wants to kill them. One week, she urges Clark to be honest, the next she's lying to someone.

Well that's the writers doing. Lana isn't the only one that flip flops on this show. There's Chloe telling Clark to move on from Lana one week and then telling him to be honest with her the next week. Martha is also another flip flopper...

[dru-zod2501]

Originally posted by Pink Sweater
CLARK

I think that Clark is capable of unconditional love. Even after Lana marries his friend-turned-nemesis (before he discovered the reason), he still loved her.
Before that, he was willing to let her hate him in order to protect her.
He revealed his secret to her, even though it may have driven her away.

I'm still on the fence when it comes to Clark not telling Lana her secret and whether or not that affects the unconditionality of his love.

Clark is supposed to be superman, so unconditional love is a part of his nature, though I blame bad writing for the kind of ridiculous situations they get into without thinking, and are too dumb to think their way out of. When he revealed the secret in S6 that was a move smacking of desperation, it was all he could think of to use on her at the time. It had nothing to do with being worried about making her leave since she was already leaving anyway. When she married Lex, Clark was burying his feelings and refusing to let go which isn't the same as unconditional love. Let's not forget how time after time Chloë pointed out all the healthy ways to go about moving on with his life while loving Lana, which Clark largely ignored.

You already know what I think about the secret.

Originally posted by Pink Sweater
LANA

Based on her actions in the show, I don't know if Lana is capable of unconditional love. As Kal26 said, "unconditional love is when you love someone no matter what they do," etc. But in Nemesis, Lana says, "If someone lied to me like that, they would lose my love forever."
Also, she flip-flops when it comes to opinions. One week she sees the good in people affected by kryptonite, the next week she wants to kill them. One week, she urges Clark to be honest, the next she's lying to someone.

As someone said, flip-flops can be attributed to bad writing. I think Clark is the only person she comes the closest to loving unconditionally, more than I say for Clark. He been screwing her over for years without so much as an explanation, he's pushed her so far away they were almost enemies, yet still she protects and supports him even if her life is in danger.

Originally posted by Dor el
I disagree. I think Clark is very capable of unconditional love. You don't have to "trust" someone to love them. You don't have to divulge your deepest darkest secrets to prove your love. You are not required to answer every question put forth by the person you love. Love is an emotion that often is illogical, but very potent. I believe that Clark, above all, puts others's needs before his own. Yes, he has desires or dreams, and sometimes he imagines what having his desires fulfilled would be like, but in the end, Clark does what is right. Is he perfect? Nope. Does he make bad judgement calls? Yep. But, mistakes and lapses in judgement do not preclude love. I realize that this is likely an unpopular opinion, but it is my opinion and as such is not subject to contestation.

fair enough, but in my opinion there can't be real love without trust, they both need to be there in order for it to be as strong as possible. Especially with something like the secret that came between them every day in every way. More than once Clark has said "I can't expect her to react the same way you did (referring to chloe)" Just what did he expect from her?? would she have a heart attack and a stroke simultaneously, falling dead into his arms?? Did he think it would turn out like Pete, her getting mad and fuming for an episode then making up before end credits? "oh I can't possible hand ANOTHER episode with Lana pissed off cause of something my dumbass did!!!" Did he think Lana would be the first to run to the police, the Torch, the Planet, FBI, then Lex? that's not love to me. If you're THAT afraid of someone, you think they'll do something so horrible to you it'll ruin your life, so keep them at arms length at all costs, that can't be love.

Originally posted by Kal26
I think lex was, and possibly is very capable of love. It's statements like the one that lana made, and things that his father, Mr.Kent, and Clark have said to him over the years that have pushed him away from his caring relationships. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. The more harsh rejection he gets from those he cares about, and the more he hears that he's turning into his father, the more he will become exactly what everyone thinks he is. It's been a steady progression starting in season one. I think lana should have stopped to think about herself before she made that statement. Is she capable of loving someone, even when she doesn't get the attention she wants from that person. I don't think so. I think she's only capable of caring about herself. That's why she's in the place with lex that she is. She knew what he was all about when she got with him, but he told her what she wanted to hear. There is no doubt in my mind that lex really does love lana, but she got involved with someone who is into things that she doesn't want to be a part of. She should have ended it before it got to the point that it did. He's just being himself, and she's doing what she always tries to do. She's trying to change him into what she wants him to be.

Unconditional love is when you love someone no matter what they do, or no matter who they are underneath. That does not mean that you have to be happy with their actions, or go along with them. It just means that you love them no matter what. It does not mean that you have to go along with them on everything, agree with everything they do, let them get away with doing things that you know are wrong, or even let them go unpunished for doing things that you know are wrong. It just means that at the end of the day, no matter what is going on with you, or them, you still have love in your heart for them.

I don't disagree with any of that. Perhaps in this universe Lex was driven to the dark side partly by the actions of others but the point is now he's chosen power over love. Or as I mentioned before it's possible in his mind he thinks he does love Lana; but those emotions are so screwed up they can't be called love anymore.

[MidgardDragon]

Also, she flip-flops when it comes to opinions.

Worst. Term. Ever!

People change their minds, sometimes even 5 or 6 times in a short period. The ability to change one's mind is a positive character trait, not a weakness.

[Wooderson_Grey]

Lana is right. Lex doesnt love, he obsesses.

[Kal26]

Originally posted by Kid Collins


Of course she's capable of unconditional love. She married Lex for Clark! Sacrificied her singlehood for him.

And unconditional love does not mean loving somebody who intentionally set out to hurt you, like Lex has done. Only a moron would stay with someone who did that.
[/B]

I'm not trying to attack, or argue here, so please don't take this the wrong way. I'm loving this convo, it's really neat to get others opinions on this subject, as it's one I've been wrestling with for some time in my own head. I would say that unconditional love does mean loving someone who has intentionally set out to hurt you, but just because you love them does not mean you have to put up with that, and doesn't mean you should stay with them. To me, it just means that on some level you still care for, and love them. I agree that only a moron would stay with someone like lex, but if you love, or claim to love someone, that shouldn't just get shut off, or else you never really loved them to begin with, which is fine for lana because she basically married lex to save clark. The problem with saying that doing so proved her unconditional love for clark is that she didn't love him again, until she found out his secret. That sounds more like conditional love to me. Now that there are no secrets she can love him again. However, I'm obviously no authority on the subject so opinions will, and should vary.

[Dor el]

Yep. What he said ^^.

Back to the original question....hmmm...I think Lana did not over do her tongue thrashing of Lex. I like Kal26's term "conditional love" to describe Lana's love for Clark. True she did marry Lex to save Clark. But, that was after she knew Clark's secret. While she thought Clark was keeping something from her, she was in bed with Lex. Even so, Lex treated Lana badly, and for this he deserved what he got and possibly more.

One more thought though. I think a person can unconditionally love someone else even if they don't trust that person. I have a family member who I wouldn't trust to babysit my pet rock, yet I dearly love and enjoy that person and would do anything for that person...except turn my back on him with my purse or a sensitive secret.

[Kid Collins]

Originally posted by Kal26
The problem with saying that doing so proved her unconditional love for clark is that she didn't love him again, until she found out his secret. That sounds more like conditional love to me. Now that there are no secrets she can love him again. However, I'm obviously no authority on the subject so opinions will, and should vary.

Lana told Chloe in Hydro that if it was Clark that proposed to her that she wouldn't hesitate giving her answer like she's doing with Lex.

Lana has always loved Clark. Even when he was pulling away from her after he came back to life in Hidden, she still tried to keep their relationship together.

I think finding out his secret and the real reason why he didn't tell her put how she really felt for him in perspective. She realized that he didn't keep his secret from her to deliberately hurt her. He had his reasons and one of them was to protect her now she understand that.

[Kal26]

Originally posted by Dor el

One more thought though. I think a person can unconditionally love someone else even if they don't trust that person. I have a family member who I wouldn't trust to babysit my pet rock, yet I dearly love and enjoy that person and would do anything for that person...except turn my back on him with my purse or a sensitive secret.

Exactly!

Originally posted by Kid Collins
Lana told Chloe in Hydro that if it was Clark that proposed to her that she wouldn't hesitate giving her answer like she's doing with Lex.

Lana has always loved Clark. Even when he was pulling away from her after he came back to life in Hidden, she still tried to keep their relationship together.

I think finding out his secret and the real reason why he didn't tell her put how she really felt for him in perspective. She realized that he didn't keep his secret from her to deliberately hurt her. He had his reasons and one of them was to protect her now she understand that.

I don't know. I haven't seen all of season six yet, so I can't comment on what lana has told other people. I 'm just going on the fact that she was able to discard him from her life over a secret that ended up making her respect him. I know love and trust don't really have to go hand in hand, but it just seemed to me that she has always been able to turn on people after she found out that they weren't going to be who she wanted them to be.

However, her actions could also be taken as love, not giving, as I talked about earlier. I mean, did she love clark, but leave him because she thought he was going to be bad for her? It is possible that she could love him unconditionally without putting up with his lies, but if that were the case, she wouldn't have been able to jump in the sack with lex so quickly. Unless she also was in love with him. I do think you can love more than one person, but you can only have one soul mate. I don't think clark is lana's. I see lex, and lana as being more alike than clark and lana.

I have to stick with my judgment that lana didn't love clark unconditionally because the only person lana cares about is lana. The only thing she wants to fulfill is her yearning for her perfect love. I think she'll love whoever will fill the role that she has created in her mind for the perfect guy in the perfect relationship. Of course now that she knows clark is the hero of all heroes she wants to be with him. It seems she's becoming more like lana from the comics all the time.

[rollergirl42]

Clark said it best in Crimson, something like Lex has always wanted what I have, or something to that effect with Lex is always about possesion. who and what he can own. He might have loved her at first but when he felt she still was not over Clark that might be the reason he took the steps he did so she had to marry him.

[happyending21]

I know what lex has done but imo she deliberatly said this to put salt in the wound ....no im not baging on lana cause i dislike her im bagging cause i love lex

but for me yes fine say what he did was wrong but when she said "clark means more to me than you ever will" that was imo silly on her part ..she said to clark that she had to leave "lex is going to be very angry" and then she goes and winds him up knowing what deep down he's capable of ...know thats just IMO the most ridiculas thing in the world

[redraven]

Yeah...poor woobie Lex. I'm really sick of all this Lex pity, I mean, I can understand it to some degree because of all that's happened to him but it's getting a little overboard.

He's the bad guy who got Simone to try and break Clark and Lana up, he put Lana through both a fake pregnancy and a fake miscarriage, all so he could have her to himself. And all she did was say some stuff to him...and everything that she said was true.

[Dor el]

Plus, in the season finale for season 5, an emboldened Lex went to Clark's barn and told Clark some things Clark deserved to hear, but Lex also threw some salt into Clark's wounds when Lex told Clark something like he had wanted what Clark had and now he had the best of what Clark had meaning Lana I presume. So, Lex is not without a history of throwing salt into wounds and should recognize the tactic. And he should not be surprised when someone, even Lana, does it to him. Remember the goose and the gander.

Originally posted by happyending21
but for me yes fine say what he did was wrong but when she said "clark means more to me than you ever will" that was imo silly on her part ..she said to clark that she had to leave "lex is going to be very angry" and then she goes and winds him up knowing what deep down he's capable of ...know thats just IMO the most ridiculas thing in the world

Yes, but sometimes when people are engaging in emotional warfare, they often feel desperate (and that usually is the result of the other's behavior) and will use any weapon at their disposal that they think may cause the most direct or even collateral damage to the other person. Lana felt trapped, she felt she'd lost a battle or two to Lex, she felt desperate, she felt Lex had played dirty, and now she was ready to unleash her dirty bomb. I think that the tongue lashing was not the only "dirty bomb" she deployed.