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  • #16
    Originally posted by JDubbz
    i think you're missing a few things. I recommend everyone watch the episode again and listen carefully to when they're talking. I'll do so myself as well but before that here's why it doesn't make sense...

    Future Hiro says he stabbed Sylar and Sylar regenerated and that's why he didn't die. That means he has Claire's power, and Claire must be DEAD because she cannot live with injuries to the brain, as seen in past episodes. if Sylar is eating people's brains, she can't regenerate. Yet...she's alive in the future? WTF?

    Also, recall that Mohinder does mention he remembers Peter talking about future Hiro and the message. So why didn't Peter act on it in the same way this time? What makes the present time different? Doesn't make much sense to me.

    So let's see...Hiro apparently stabs Sylar, he regenerates and DOES NOT die. How? Because he killed Claire and has her powers. But she's alive, so there's only one solution i can think of that the writers must have in store for the next episode...

    Sylar doesn't get that power from Claire. He never did. He got it from someone else. Mallory perhaps? Or perhaps a hero that will be introduced in the episode before the season finale, or even in the season finale. Something's missing, and I don't think it's an error.
    Ok
    1. Yes, Mohinder mentions that Peter mentioned Future Hiro (because Hiro did go back and Peter did save Claire - thus Claire is alive in the future)
    2. Sylar didn't get Claire's power because of Peter so Claire is still alive in the future
    3. Sylar didn't get stabbed by Hiro on the day of the explosion because Hiro wasn't there to stab him because Hiro accidently traveled to the future and met himself.
    4. Thus Sylar is still alive in the time line and Claire is still alive in the time line that was created as a result of the actions of Peter and Hiro.

    Going back in time Hiro is now there to stab Sylar (if given the opportunity) and thus the future they visited will never take place. The explosion might still happen - but that exact future we saw tonight should never appear like that again - because the past has been directly changed (again) by Hiro and Peter.

    Maybe I am missing something. But I think that covers it. I'll gladly watch the ep again though - far be it for me to say 'I know it all' because I don't.

    Originally posted by JDubbz
    perhaps the Haitian is there when he gets the gash that becomes the scar? That's the only thing I can think of.

    And Drolfin, good point about Linderman. How about this...SYLAR KILLS LINDERMAN! That could be a reason why he's able to regenerate in a sense.
    That's a good idea. Maybe Nathan doesn't want to work with Linderman so Linderman makes a deal with Sylar but then Sylar turns on him and now has both their powers?
    Last edited by Ginx; 04-30-2007, 08:25 PM.

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    • #17
      Once Claire was saved the future changed

      1. Claire was alive, when she was not before.

      2. Sylar was not the bomb, therefore wasn't stabbed by Hiro.

      3. Peter was the bomb and his scar could be a result of that, while recovering from going nuclear he developed the scar from devoting most of his energy to healing worse off parts

      4. Since Sylar was not the bomb it is possible that he was not in NY when the bomb went off.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Ginx
        Ok
        1. Yes, Mohinder mentions that Peter mentioned Future Hiro (because Hiro did go back and Peter did save Claire - thus Claire is alive in the future)


        Not necessarily. They never acknowledge that Peter saved Claire in the future version. Isn't that why Hiro goes back and tells him to "save the cheerleader, save the world." As far as Hiro and Peter know, Claire is dead in the future.
        3. Sylar didn't get stabbed by Hiro on the day of the explosion because Hiro wasn't there to stab him because Hiro accidently traveled to the future and met himself.
        Uh...future Hiro DID stab him. He says he did, and he says Sylar regenerated, meaning he has a healing ability. They assumed it was Claire. But perhaps it's Lindermans power he gets.
        [/QUOTE]

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        • #19
          [lol my head hurts.......]

          I think their question was that even though Claire was saved then Sylar shouldn't be alive based on what Future Hiro told Past Hiro in this episode. But then again......I need sleep........I'm having a Mohinder Moment......

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          • #20
            Alright here is my tempt at explaining it.

            The first time hiro went back in time he believed that Sylar exploded, so he believed stabbing Sylar would stop the explosion. We also know that Peter caused the original explosion, so stabbing Sylar would not stop Peter from exploding.

            Now if we remember back to the first episode we see when Hiro goes to New York five weeks in the future, that time went faster, and when he called Ando, Ando said where have you been for such and such time you haven't been here. This means that the future is going to change when Hiro goes back because he was five years in the future when the bomb went off. In essence until he travels back in time, it is as if he never went back. When he goes back, then the future is a blank check again because in the future from this episode he wasn't there for the explosion. The future Hiro is still in existence because by going back and forth in time he is kind of outside of the bubble like the Back to the future theory. That also explains why he still believes he stabbed Sylar.

            Time travelling stuff is difficult. Sometimes I think it is best to just accept it and move on, and not ask too many questions.


            To me the real question is Hiro still doesn't know that Peter causes the explosion, will he find out in time to stop the series of events from happening?
            Last edited by shipgrad2002; 04-30-2007, 08:37 PM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by JDubbz
              Not necessarily. They never acknowledge that Peter saved Claire in the future version. Isn't that why Hiro goes back and tells him to "save the cheerleader, save the world." As far as Hiro and Peter know, Claire is dead in the future.


              Uh...future Hiro DID stab him. He says he did, and he says Sylar regenerated, meaning he has a healing ability. They assumed it was Claire. But perhaps it's Lindermans power he gets.
              Ok - so what you're saying is that the future didn't change at all since Peter saved Claire. That would explain why Future Hiro seemed surprised that they did save Claire? I would think that by them saving Claire that it would have directly changed the future. Maybe not.

              Yes, I agree. Future Hiro did stab Sylar...but at one point Future Hiro and Past Hiro were the same person and that is when Sylar gets stabbed - on that day though - Hiro wasn't in NY in that time - he was in the future. So Future Hiro did stab Sylar but the past Hiro did not. Now to me - I would think that these actions would have directly affected the future - but it's looking like they did not and this future is set unless they stop the explosion?

              I agree that the healing power must have come from someone else. But Linderman can heal others - but can he heal himself?

              Originally posted by shipgrad2002
              Alright here is my tempt at explaining it.

              The first time hiro went back in time he believed that Sylar exploded, so he believed stabbing Sylar would stop the explosion. We also know that Peter caused the original explosion, so stabbing Sylar would not stop Peter from exploding.

              Now if we remember back to the first episode we see when Hiro goes to New York five weeks in the future, that time went faster, and when he called Ando, Ando said where have you been for such and such time you haven't been here. This means that the future is going to change when Hiro goes back because he was five years in the future when the bomb went off. In essence until he travels back in time, it is as if he never went back. When he goes back, then the future is a blank check again because in the future from this episode he wasn't there for the explosion. The future Hiro is still in existence because by going back and forth in time he is kind of outside of the bubble like the Back to the future theory. That also explains why he still believes he stabbed Sylar.

              Time travelling stuff is difficult. Sometimes I think it is best to just accept it and move on, and not ask too many questions.


              To me the real question is Hiro still doesn't know that Peter causes the explosion, will he find out in time to stop the series of events from happening?
              Interesting....interesting......I do think you're on to something with your bubble theory. I think I was coming to the same conclusion going back and forth with JDubbz. I'm just having a hard time accepting it lol.....hence the Mohinder Moment of denial and then not seeing things as they are lol.....

              That is the question isn't it - will Hiro make it back in time to stop Peter? Or stop the events that lead up to Peter exploding.
              Last edited by Ginx; 04-30-2007, 08:39 PM.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by JDubbz
                perhaps the Haitian is there when he gets the gash that becomes the scar? That's the only thing I can think of.

                And Drolfin, good point about Linderman. How about this...SYLAR KILLS LINDERMAN! That could be a reason why he's able to regenerate in a sense.
                Sylar killing Linderman makes sense... why else would the law be called "Linderman's Law"? The laws are usually named after the 'poster child' victim...


                Also, here is an attempt at an explanation (though all of this is theoretical anyway)

                Time flows forward, thus giving the appearance that changing the past is dangerous, since it changes the future in strange and unpredictable ways, i.e. the save the cheerleader thing- if the cheerleader is saved, who is to say what that will do but stop the immediate threat?

                Ok... here we go with the theory... it's a two parter.

                1. The paradox theory doesn't work. Once a person starts to time travel, they are outside of the timestream. Things that change because of them don't cascade as one would suppose. The timeline attempts to heal the aberration, thus making it so that time cannot be changed.

                Look at the bit with Charlie (the woman with the prodigious brainpower). Hiro tries to change the event, but realizes he can't. Why does he come to that realization? Because his efforts don't help the future.

                2. Once a person is outside of the timestream, they *can* actually change the future. It just takes effort and they have to be careful. Changing time by brute force either a) wouldn't work, or b) would cause consequences. That's why future hiro constructed his timeline. He had to find out the exact series of events he had to change in order to erase Sylar.

                Since Hiro has not completed the changes in the timeline, the changes are not complete.

                Or it could be that Hiro just can't change the future, but doesn't know it, and something will happen to make this future still occur. Depressing.
                Last edited by wraith808; 04-30-2007, 09:10 PM.

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                • #23
                  I think it's a new spin on the basic paradox. Cause -> Effect -> Cause -> effect. Claire was Killed by Sylar. When future Hiro stabbed Sylar, he regenerated with her ability. Future Hiro warned Peter Patrelli to save Claire and returned to his timeline. His efforts caused Claire to be alive.

                  Now... Had Hiro and Ando not traveled into the future, the timeline would have been altered to show that future had successfully stabbed and killed Sylar (theoretically that is, if the stab illustracted in 9th Wonders is a fatal stab). However, because Hiro and Ando traveled into the future, they would not have been in the past to kill Sylar. Therefor, Hiro and Ando need to travel back to the present so Hiro can stab Sylar and complete the causality loop.

                  Once present Hiro stabs Sylar, the future Timeline should be erased. But I have a headache now. Janeway was right.

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                  • #24
                    The problem still remains that Peter is the one that explodes, so unless Sylar causes Peter to explde, killing Sylar won't do much.

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                    • #25
                      pff I came here loking for answers, see if I missed anything that you guys could explain 'bout the time anamoly and all I got were more question LOL I'm not even gonna try to explain what I think, my head is spinning already

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                      • #26
                        I think it's simple because there is only two timelines in the works here...

                        The "5 Years Gone" timeline is where Future Hiro tries to kill Sylar but Sylar has Claire's powers to regen. So Future Hiro goes back in time to get Peter to save Claire.

                        Present Hiro travels into the future of "5 Year Gone" timeline where Future Hiro tells himself why he asked Peter to save Claire. Technically, Future Hiro still stabbed Sylar.

                        So there can only be two possibilties of why Sylar is still alive in the future.

                        1. Time anomaly where Future Hiro changed the "Present" timeline but because Present Hiro left his time and jumped to the future, there was no one there to stab Sylar. However "5 Years Gone" timeline still progresses normally on its own with Future Hiro still thinking he failed to stab Sylar.

                        The only way I can explain this is that no matter how Hiro changes the past, he still retains the memory of the unchanged timeline(s) in his head.

                        Possbility 2.

                        Sylar simply has some other ability that prevented the stab from killing him. I doubt it is Healing though, because otherwise, he wouldn't be that excited when he got his hands on Claire.

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                        • #27
                          I think the last post pretty much has it.

                          I think people are making it out to be more than what it is. If you noticed, Clair is still alive in the future. If Future hero stabbed Sylar and it didn't kill him....basically they all thought Sylar got the cheerleader and that's why he survived. Apparently, Hiro will not be the one to kill Sylar. The stab does not kill him.

                          If Sylar dies, someone else will be the one to do it.

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                          • #28
                            Right on,

                            Whether present day Hiro stabs sylar or not, debating it is very poinless.

                            Hiro has not stabbed him yet, or
                            Hiro never stabs him at all, or
                            hiro stabs him but fails to kill him, or
                            Hiro stabs him but Sylar gets healed, or
                            some other reason.

                            who knows
                            Timetravel is very hard to argue about because the best understanding we have is still very unreliable.

                            This is not a plothole.

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                            • #29
                              Besides, stabbing Sylar will likely not stop the explosion in NYC. PETER is the one responsible for that, not Sylar. On top of that, Sylar could have been lying but he told Peter that Nathon really did turn on his own kind. So if the explosion still happens and Nathon really does take office and really does go about trying to get the world to fear his own kind.... What's really better?

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                              • #30
                                Major Holes last night...Too many to count actually....

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