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Was Dream!Chloe the creation of Clark or the Phantom?

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  • #31
    I think it was a combination of what Clark has in his mind about Chloe and a role the Phantom wanted to create in his mind trap world to convince Clark to get the treatment.

    Which is interesting because he used Chloe to push Clark toward Lana.

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    • #32
      she started out more normal, so that was possibly Clark. But she slowly became crazier and that, I think, fulfilled the phantom's goals more than her dying. She was a logical choice, since she "knew" who he was, and has a history of mental illness in her family. Thinking Chloe was crazy would be a huge blow and mean he was crazy too.

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      • #33
        I think meggy gave a good analysis of what was going on.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by meggy
          i think i can answer your question Kat Halliwell with a theory i posted on the AU characters in another thread...

          I think the Phantom created all the characters in the AU using Clark's memories and feelings (in the real world) about each person.

          Lana:the person that he wanted to be normal with..hence her purpose in the AU..

          Lex: in the RW, Lex is like the person CK couldnt save from his evil side. Clark thought their friendship would save him..but in the end, he couldn't...so in the dream world, CK stepped in front of the car to save him with his "powers" but things turned out worse...and then of course, the phantom used CK's memory of the accident on the bridge

          Martha:as we will see in Crimson, CK is concerned about his mother's closeness to Lionel. He sees Lionel/their growing relationship as "corrupting" his mom....in the AU, this "corruption" is shown via Martha married to Lionel and not believeing him.....because of course, in CK's mind, if she were still with Jonathan, then they would have believed him....Lionel has changed her...

          Chloe: since the phantom uses CK's memories, thoughts, feelings etc to create situations around the AU characters, it couldn't find a way to make him believe that Chloe thought he was crazy, because in his mind, they are always there for each other, believe in each other etc...so instead, the phantom makes her believe him, but uses CK's knowledge of her mother's madness to discredit her belief in him in the AU by making her crazy also. The phantom also knows of his fear that the ppl who know his secrets gets hurt by being associated with him...hence her death by believing in his fake powers..
          I didn't think of this.. you hit the nail on the head!!! Very good analasis..

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          • #35
            im not really sure i can accept this

            i mean they didnt offer any explanation of any of it really, but thats expected.

            thing is, you can see how the phantom could have been controlling the lana, lex and martha characters cause thye were all trying to make him take the treatment, but chloe seemed to be a manifestation of clark's belief in himself... she was the only character pulling him back to the truth other than the martian manhunter, so i find it hard to believe the phantom was making her say those things

            it is all a bit confusing

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            • #36
              On another site someone suggested that CrazyDream!Chloe was the creation of Martian Manhunter. I thought that was a cool idea. A way for MM to sow dischord in the Phantom's dream world.

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              • #37
                I don't care if she was created in china I thought it was a good piece of writing and it all worked out in the end

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                • #38
                  First off I feel there is allot of potential subtext that could be worked into such a cerebral episode. The least of which being how many people died before the Phantom found T Kryptonian host. Perhaps.. where did Martian Manhunter really come from? The way I look at it is as follows.

                  Our Phantom is some sort of extra terrestrial entity that may or may not have had an original physical body. However it started its now a ghost. It is floating from place to place.. probably wrecked a few hosts along the way. Its familiar with the process.

                  Taking over a mind would have to be like knocking over dominoes. It seems to me that the Phantom entered Clark's mind and it had to work with what was there. Each character resembled an element of what makes Clark care about life. Each person a reason to hold on.

                  Not so much created by the the Phantom, but controlled by the Phantom most certainly. Created by Clark because those were the tools the Phantom had to work with.

                  Lex his rival is legless, Chloe his confidant insane, mother corrupted, and Lana appears in the 50's daydream version of herself that Clark knows isn't real. Clark knows what she looks like when she agrees to marry him. That "dream I had" well the reference and the outfit of the attick was reminiscent of that moment lost to dire time travel.

                  Clark has the real memory of asking a woman to marry him, have her say yes and it just neeto your an alien! Then watch her die! No wonder he would have deep psychological issues about her - not to mention countless drastic situations stacked on and on.

                  "I had a dream that I asked you to marry me" and what did she say? Well he said "I woke up" but if I remember the line correctly Lana's response was "yes" she agrees to marry him, but then.. the powers take everything away from him.

                  I imagine our Phantom snuck into the mind of "kal-el" with some intent of "giving him the power he must have always dreamed of" thought the predatory Phantom, but what strange and amazing thing did he find? Clark. So full of nightmares of meteors falling on family and friends. The sky wept death and drastic changes the day our hero came to town.

                  Imagine growing up knowing that, and that your the one that got the +5 bonus for their sacrifice. Others got a +1, +2, and even some +4 bonuses, but Your the top of the scale. You have unstoppable powers, more importantly you have Kent as a last name. "your more than just an alien with powers. Your Clark Kent, and in this family we..." Thats what the Phantom wasn't expecting to find.

                  Notice it didn't bring back a father. It didn't dare play that card. Doomed to fail. Instead it tasseled Lana in her impossibly selfless pin up china doll form. Chloe in her full of doubt and shaky state, Lionel like Pa is missing, because the father figure would rile strength. Lex must be emasculated to undercut the emotional power of their rivalry.

                  So I guess my knee jerk voting was inopportune. "Clark made the image of Chloe at her worst" but the Phantom was controlling the entire play exquisitely. Oops. Can I unvote and vote again?

                  Hrm, this nagging thought though... "The Phantom? .... or The Manhunter?" No spoiler here total hmm.. a what if..

                  "A Martian" is imprisoned. He claims to be a good guy.. perhaps like the one chick in the Phantom zone.. "Lab Tech" Right.. "I am from .. uh (scan planets in solar system.. war of the worlds..) Mars." The Phantom says. Maybe no one died on the way.. it was a test. You may have doubts about the Manhunter's Mental Powers...

                  In the Comics at least (and the powers seem to be middling matching the 4-color levels) J'onzz can run a tri-continental radio-esqu mindlink for JLA missions.. Thats what makes him the Justice League. That and the spaceship.

                  So the "wyrd truth" could be that the "Martian" is actually a phantom that got out. Goes up and finds alien probing earth from Mars of wherever. Takes it over (humans being too flimsy without modification) takes that guy over. Then scans the system.. was originally thinking of leaving. Then.. it saw the "Kryptonian... the last one most likely."

                  It was gonna pop in and snack him, but found something unexpected in the boy. A random unknown face appears in the maze. Intent to give you "a sporting chance" There is one completely untrustworthy face in the thing and it is the one that is telling you the truth.. my brother.

                  He was black, who remembers best friend Pete? What if our "Manhunter" turns out to have been just another eater of souls.. until Clark defeated him in honorable combat. In the Dungeons of the Mind Clark found his way out with only two warnings. Three seens he has Shelby barkin.

                  An enemy becomes a friend. wtf?

                  "I'm from .. Mars.. and I know your a Kryptonian Kal-El" Makes more sense in 2 minutes than to say "I'm originally from Omni-Critin. Your people name it only as a number in the sky. My people were once long ago called Daxamites" try explaining that in less than 5000 chars. Barely

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