What is with Lois putting down Clark?

[BadToad]

You have to understand where I'm coming from here because you and I differ on this. I don't want Clark using his powers to find a piece of paper and then have Chloe act as his brain to go and tell him what to do.

And I don't think her saying "Hey, Lex funds that halfway house" can be described as her acting as his brain. She shared information she knew with him.

Clark is supposed to be an investigative reporter, now maybe that doesn't matter to you, but it matters to me.

Actually, has Clark Kent ever been an investigative reporter at aged 19? In any version of Superman? Not that I'm aware of.

And in this situation, Chloe figured out everything and Clark ripped open a safe and found some paperwork that Chloe had to tell him about. That doesn't tickle my fancy.

You can keep saying that until the cows come home, but it doesn't make it so. Chloe didn't "figure out" anything. Certainly no more then Clark did. I already did a breakdown of events. All Chloe did was share the information that it was Lex's halfway house. Information that fell into her lap earlier in the day, nothing she dug up. She shared the info, Clark figured out that Lex could be the next target, and off he went. There was no real onscreen investigating done by EITHER Clark or Chloe in this episode. The only true investigating happened offscreen, done by bio-lab contract CPD.

If Clark Kent was not known as an investigative reporter, I wouldn't have a problem with what happens all of the time on this show.

But he isn't known as one at aged 19. I don't really get it myankskent. You are all "RahRah Lois" since she's only now discovering her journalistic side, yet Lois is supposed to be far ahead of Clark on that scale. But you are crapping all over Clark because his focus is more on the hero side, and figuring out all his heritage crap, then being into journalism. Do we really want to see Clark hacking at computers, and calling "his contacts" as opposed to going out and saving people? Or doing hero things? We only got about 42 minutes to an episode here, and we have to also accomodate other characters. So, it would seem to me that going the expedient method (which is Chloe and her off screen contacts) gives them more time to do other things with the show.

But didn't Clark go to Lionel himself in "Arrow" and "Reunion" to get information. I guess you could say that was "his contact"?

It's like what people say about GA acting as the hero and taking away things from Clark, Chloe is taking away the "Clark Kent" side of him by doing all of the research and investigating.

Not the same situation at all, IMO. The GA story just takes over whole episodes. It isn't him acting "the hero" thats the problem. Its the fact that he's getting more focus and character development then the main characters (Clark *and* Lex). I don't think that could be said of Chloe at all, who has in fact less screentime in 6 episodes than GA has in 4 eps. And Lois only has slightly less then her despite being in one less episode.

And yes, I give Clark credit for this episode, but let's not lose sight of what we are talking about here, or at least what I'm talking about.

I think we lost sight of it as soon as this turned into a "Chloe Bad!" thread. When the thread started out about Lois' being needlessly rude to Clark. Because even *if you think Lois was right to call Chloe (I still maintain...what did she think Chloe was going to do?), it still doesn't address the rudeness. Or the need for it.

From the point of Lois calling Chloe, who figured things out first, Chloe or Clark? Answer: Chloe because she had her contact pull up information on the scientist.

Which doesn't mean she figured anything out. It just meant her contact got back to her. In fact, in the scene with Clark, its Clark that asks her who the scientist working on it is, and only then does Chloe click on the name "Pamela Black". Chloe had figured out nothing.

And it bothers me to no end that even the writers are acknowledging that Chloe is the girl to go to in order to get the information, not Clark, which was the whole point of Lois' line right there.

But not the point of this thread, which was to address Lois' rudeness.

Now you want to start bringing up the fact that Clark found out that Ollie was using drugs and say that I am taking that away from Clark, when in actuality, I never even mentioned that in the first place. Of course Clark gets the credit for that.

But...But...I thought Chloe acted as Clark's brain? I thought he could do nothing without Chloe? How did he ever manage to do these things you are giving him credit for?

We're getting into the same type of debate that we had with Lana back in the spring. Lois doesn't see Clark as an investigative reporter, she sees Chloe as one.

And since Chloe is an investigative reporter, this would be a bad thing how? And I don't think Clark Kent was a reporter at 19 in any incarnation. But it bothers you that people see Chloe for what she actually is? And how does this address Lois being rude and nasty again?

She has the tools to work with, not Clark.

Right, so you don't have an issue with Lois going to Chloe, seeing as how she's an investigative reporter and has the tools....but you have an issue with Clark going to Chloe for the same reasons. Isn't Lois Lane supposed to be the best investigative reporter out there? Aren't you angry that she's going to Chloe, as opposed to finding out the info on her own, with her own contacts?

Lois also doesn't know that Clark has powers and in the earlier discussion between these two, Clark told Lois to stay away from Oliver and never mentioned that he was going to help him. That's why Lois told him that she doesn't abandon the people that she cares about like Clark.

Which is still a stupid thing to say because Lois knows that he helps people. She doesn't need to know he has powers to know that. Check out the final scene between Lois and Clark in "Exposed". Go find a site with the script, and read the dialogue.

Lois doesn't have all of the info on Clark, and in both conversations, Lois was clearly upset about Oliver and she got a little testy with Clark, perfectly understandable, especially during the first conversation.

And really, if you just wanted to excuse Lois because you thought she was understandably testy, that addresses the theme of this thread. IMO, I don't think its an excuse, especially since Lois is frequently rude. But if someone thinks it is, I can respect that opinion.

All this other stuff, about Lois being right, and Clark is stupid, and Chloe is terrible? Not so on board with that. IMO

In the hospital, Lois merely eliminated the middle man, Clark, and went straight to the person that could have a clue where Oliver was, Chloe. And you know what? She was right.

And what did she think Chloe would do then? Go find drug addled Ollie and bring him back on her own? Doesn't Chloe usually work with...oh, I don't know...CLARK? Doesn't Lois pretty much know that?

It's all connected because Lois' comment in the hospital had to do with Chloe's skills so Chloe's character is certainly a part of this conversation when you look at how the episode broke down after that hospital scene.

No, actually the thread was about Lois being nasty, harsh and rude. Not really about how valid you think her comments were. It was about whether is was necessary for her to come off that way. Could she not have phrased herself in the apartment as "I'm going to go help Ollie, and I don't want to hear otherwise Clark"? Still strong, still proactive, but not harsh, rude or nasty. Couldn't she have said in the hospital "Thanks Clark, but lets call Chloe for a bit more backup"? Which would be fitting considering that she's following Clark's line promising to do everything he could to find Ollie.

and he did abandon Lana after lying to her that he didn't love her anymore.

He didn't abandon her. He broke up with her. And he was saving her life one episode later. And after all, Lana had already lined up a back-up boyfriend. She's quick on those rebounds, that Lana

Well I don't know if you noticed but a lot of Clana's don't actually like Lana

Are you kidding me? They worship Lana. Check out the website devoted to Clana. Complete Lana worship. Its Clark they don't like. But he's the big ticket item on the show, so they want the pairing for her anyway. Don't ask me, I don't get it.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by BadToad

No, actually the thread was about Lois being nasty, harsh and rude. Not really about how valid you think her comments were. It was about whether is was necessary for her to come off that way. Could she not have phrased herself in the apartment as "I'm going to go help Ollie, and I don't want to hear otherwise Clark"? Still strong, still proactive, but not harsh, rude or nasty. Couldn't she have said in the hospital "Thanks Clark, but lets call Chloe for a bit more backup"? Which would be fitting considering that she's following Clark's line promising to do everything he could to find Ollie.

So you want to see Lois act out of character in this scene then? Lois is harsh to everyone on this show, was she harsh to Clark? Yes, but with good reason because she cared about Oliver and wanted to take action and felt that Chloe was the best solution to find Oliver. I then made comments referring to the writers and how they have continously made Chloe on a higher level than Clark, which relates to the statement made by Lois, IMO.

And I don't think her saying "Hey, Lex funds that halfway house" can be described as her acting as his brain. She shared information she knew with him.

If she didn't share that information with Clark, does Clark find Oliver? I don't know why you are fighting me on this. All I'm doing is breaking down the events that happened after Lois made that comment and proving that she was right in what she said about Clark. Then, given the fact that I am a Clark fan, as I've said above, I added my frustration with TPTB trashing Clark's character and elevating another by what I heard Lois say. I am examining the situation from a writing standpoint.

You can keep saying that until the cows come home, but it doesn't make it so. Chloe didn't "figure out" anything. Certainly no more then Clark did. I already did a breakdown of events. All Chloe did was share the information that it was Lex's halfway house. Information that fell into her lap earlier in the day, nothing she dug up. She shared the info, Clark figured out that Lex could be the next target, and off he went. There was no real onscreen investigating done by EITHER Clark or Chloe in this episode. The only true investigating happened offscreen, done by bio-lab contract CPD.

If Chloe didn't play a big factor in this, then how is Clark going to find Oliver after the hospital scene with Lois? Did Clark not go to Chloe for help because he had zero success in finding Oliver? That's the point here, what Lois told Clark was right on the money. Now maybe you have a problem with the way that Lois told Clark that she'd rather call Chloe, which is fair, but that's the way that Lois is. This is not out of character for her, it's how Lois Lane acts. But I really don't see how Lois going to Chloe for help over Clark is that much of an insult to Clark. Maybe if Clark didn't always go to Chloe for help, Lois would feel that Clark had a better chance to find Oliver.

But he isn't known as one at aged 19. I don't really get it myankskent. You are all "RahRah Lois" since she's only now discovering her journalistic side, yet Lois is supposed to be far ahead of Clark on that scale. But you are crapping all over Clark because his focus is more on the hero side, and figuring out all his heritage crap, then being into journalism. Do we really want to see Clark hacking at computers, and calling "his contacts" as opposed to going out and saving people? Or doing hero things? We only got about 42 minutes to an episode here, and we have to also accomodate other characters. So, it would seem to me that going the expedient method (which is Chloe and her off screen contacts) gives them more time to do other things with the show.

Not if this is the thing that happens every single episode. And I am not all RahRah Lois. Lois is a terrible journalist currently who works at a Tabloid. She has a long way to go, but I'd like to see the star of the show, Clark, take some steps in at least showing the audience that he can investigate for himself some of the time. Here's the problem here, BadToad. TPTB have written Clark's character in a way where it has now become totally unrealistic for him to investigate because he simply relies on Chloe to do all of the research. Am I saying cut Chloe out of the show entirely? No, all I'm saying is that I'd like to see Clark be the one to track people down and not go to Chloe for every single thing. And once again, I bring this up in this thread because TPTB have given Lois a line that basically confirms everything that I am saying. Is it 100 percent part of the thread topic? No, but it was mentioned on this thread by other posters and all I was doing was giving my honest opinion about it all, just like what you are doing with Clark's character which is not part of the thread topic.

But didn't Clark go to Lionel himself in "Arrow" and "Reunion" to get information. I guess you could say that was "his contact"?

Yes, props to Clark for that.

Not the same situation at all, IMO. The GA story just takes over whole episodes. It isn't him acting "the hero" thats the problem. Its the fact that he's getting more focus and character development then the main characters (Clark *and* Lex). I don't think that could be said of Chloe at all, who has in fact less screentime in 6 episodes than GA has in 4 eps. And Lois only has slightly less then her despite being in one less episode.

Oh boy, I can see we are going way off topic here. I really don't care because I am going to respond anyway. I would disagree that GA is getting more development than Clark. As far as Lex goes, he's useless anyway because his whole character revolves around Lana these days. But we have seen a lot out of Clark this season. The way I see it, if GA wasn't on this show, we'd be getting crappy filler episodes with some other guest star taking up time on the show, like has been the case all series long. At least with GA, his arc relates directly to Clark as you know, but I won't go into here because this isn't the spoilers section.

I think we lost sight of it as soon as this turned into a "Chloe Bad!" thread. When the thread started out about Lois' being needlessly rude to Clark. Because even *if you think Lois was right to call Chloe (I still maintain...what did she think Chloe was going to do?), it still doesn't address the rudeness. Or the need for it.

You have to admit, you picked apart my relatively small post to a point where now it is a Chloe Bad thread and a Clark Bad thread to a degree. We are both at fault there. How could I avoid the issue of Clark/Chloe when you are asking me about it?

Now, as for Lois, I don't interpret it as the end of the world rude, the way that you make it out to be in the posts that I have read of yours. I saw it more as a sense of urgency from Lois, recognizing that Chloe was the one who could find Oliver. Lois is not known for being "soft" with anyone on this show, she is harsh and this is another example of it. I actually like that about her, but that's just my opinion.

But...But...I thought Chloe acted as Clark's brain? I thought he could do nothing without Chloe? How did he ever manage to do these things you are giving him credit for?

I think that you can recognize scarcasm when you read it.

Right, so you don't have an issue with Lois going to Chloe, seeing as how she's an investigative reporter and has the tools....but you have an issue with Clark going to Chloe for the same reasons. Isn't Lois Lane supposed to be the best investigative reporter out there? Aren't you angry that she's going to Chloe, as opposed to finding out the info on her own, with her own contacts?

I don't think that Lois could find out anything if she was in a hospital bed. And Lois doesn't go to Chloe in every episode for help, so that's a little different. And no, Lois on Smallville is nowhere near as good as Chloe.

Which is still a stupid thing to say because Lois knows that he helps people. She doesn't need to know he has powers to know that. Check out the final scene between Lois and Clark in "Exposed". Go find a site with the script, and read the dialogue.

And in this episode, Clark did not say that he was going to help Oliver and he told Lois to stay away from him. What's with that? Why can't Clark tell her that he would go help Oliver because it was too dangerous for Lois? I didn't hear that out of Clark's mouth in that scene, did you?

And really, if you just wanted to excuse Lois because you thought she was understandably testy, that addresses the theme of this thread. IMO, I don't think its an excuse, especially since Lois is frequently rude. But if someone thinks it is, I can respect that opinion.

Ok, so we don't have a problem then. And then the only matter that I brought up, which you felt was irrelevant to say in this thread, was how Lois' line related to the importance of Chloe over Clark. You disagree, and I say that it still ties into the thread topic because it helps to explain why Lois made the comment to Clark and how it wasn't as rude to me as it was to you, because what Lois said was 100 percent true.

All this other stuff, about Lois being right, and Clark is stupid, and Chloe is terrible? Not so on board with that. IMO

You're not? I thought you were.

[Mischael12]

They use these moments to work on supermans boy scout attitude, no matter what people say he tends to keep his mouth shut.

Honestly how many times has Clark ever gotten the last word in? This season what once, and it wasn't even the last word.

Lex and Lana have walked over him so may times.

Both times "Your no longer welcome here." Yet he still comes back.

Lex needs to work on his security.

Personally i think he needs a little dose of red kryptonite put into his system to make him more of a smart mouth.

[BadToad]

If she didn't share that information with Clark, does Clark find Oliver? I don't know why you are fighting me on this. All I'm doing is breaking down the events that happened after Lois made that comment and proving that she was right in what she said about Clark. Then, given the fact that I am a Clark fan, as I've said above, I added my frustration with TPTB trashing Clark's character and elevating another by what I heard Lois say. I am examining the situation from a writing standpoint.

And if Clark doesn't X-Ray the file, rip it open and get the files, does Chloe find Oliver? The reason I'm "fighting you on this" is because I think you are absolutely and completely dead wrong, and I think your issues with Chloe are clouding the way you see any scene with her. You've said she "figured it out"...she didn't. You said she "did all the investigating"...she didn't. Why are you fixated on this one thing? That she knew the halfway house was funded by Lex, information that was dropped in her lap by Lana? That was just one piece of the overall scene that Chloe knew and Clark didn't. Does Clark find Ollie without it? Well, we can't say, can we? It didn't happen. And yes, definitely, SV is often about getting from point A to point B the fastest way possible. The fastest way here was Clark and Chloe working together...he finds the file, she tells him what she knows, he runs off to save the day.

If Chloe didn't play a big factor in this, then how is Clark going to find Oliver after the hospital scene with Lois? Did Clark not go to Chloe for help because he had zero success in finding Oliver?

He went to her because he knew she was going to get information about the drug from her contact. The drug she got from him. And when he looked, and he couldn't find Ollie (which BTW, is totally believable), yes, he came to Chloe. What was he supposed to do? Give up and go home? He was still trying to find Ollie. So, his effort only counts if no one named Chloe helps him?

And you keep avoiding my question...what did Lois think Chloe was going to do? We have no way of knowing if Lois was aware of Chloe getting the drug sample to her bio chem friend (the episode never addresses it). So, what did Lois think Chloe was going to do?

But I really don't see how Lois going to Chloe for help over Clark is that much of an insult to Clark. Maybe if Clark didn't always go to Chloe for help, Lois would feel that Clark had a better chance to find Oliver.

And if you are really worried about your boyfriend, should you really piss all over anyone thats trying to help? Since Lois and Clark managed to find Chloe in the very first eps that Lois appeared in (in fact, Clark found her first), then Lois does have firsthand experiance with the fact that Clark can, and will, find people and help them. Sorry, I don't believe in the idea of characters on this show having complete memory loss when it comes to how Clark has personally helped them.

Not if this is the thing that happens every single episode.

Except it doesn't, as I've provided you with examples of Clark going to Lionel in "Arrow" and "Reunion". So, you just don't want Clark to work with Chloe at all then?

And I am not all RahRah Lois. Lois is a terrible journalist currently who works at a Tabloid.

Ah, but she's right to crap all over other people then? I see

She has a long way to go, but I'd like to see the star of the show, Clark, take some steps in at least showing the audience that he can investigate for himself some of the time.

Arrow, Reunion

Here's the problem here, BadToad. TPTB have written Clark's character in a way where it has now become totally unrealistic for him to investigate because he simply relies on Chloe to do all of the research.

And I think what they've written is an easy way for them to have Clark out there, doing all the action, interacting with people, saving the day, while they use the Chloe character to be the hacker and sidekick. Do they go overboard sometimes? Yes. Do I feel its to the extent you describe? No. Chloe is good at this stuff. She's always been good at this stuff. Why wouldn't Clark employ those resources if it helps him get things done?

You have to admit, you picked apart my relatively small post to a point where now it is a Chloe Bad thread and a Clark Bad thread to a degree. We are both at fault there. How could I avoid the issue of Clark/Chloe when you are asking me about it?

You brought it up first. If you are going to use this thread to slam Clark, and Chloe, then why would you expect someone not to respond? You could've just kept it on topic and said you thought that Lois was justifiably upset, just being her usual nasty self, and wanted to use Chloe's resources. I wouldn't have had any issue with that.

Now, as for Lois, I don't interpret it as the end of the world rude, the way that you make it out to be in the posts that I have read of yours.

I'm not sure what "end of the world rude" is supposed to mean. When you are deliberately rude to someone, its rude. When you hit them below the belt with a nasty comment that you know better about, its rude. When someone is sincerely offering you help, and you blow them off rudely, its rude. This isn't teasing, or banter, or playfulness. This was flat out rude. I just don't find deliberately rude people charming.

I don't think that Lois could find out anything if she was in a hospital bed. And Lois doesn't go to Chloe in every episode for help, so that's a little different. And no, Lois on Smallville is nowhere near as good as Chloe.

Lois isn't in every episode, and she spends many of her episodes not doing much of anything important, so no, I wouldn't expect her to go to Chloe. Clark is actually doing stuff that involves a need for hacking and info.

And in this episode, Clark did not say that he was going to help Oliver and he told Lois to stay away from him. What's with that? Why can't Clark tell her that he would go help Oliver because it was too dangerous for Lois? I didn't hear that out of Clark's mouth in that scene, did you?

Why should anyone need to? Why should Lois need to? How long has she known him now? How many times has she seen him help people? Did she not just see him showing concern for Ollie and Lex in "Reunion"? I don't know why you are so insistent that these people need constant reenforcement that Clark actually has helped them. Do they need weekly reminders? Clark to keep a list, to roll out whenever one of them starts b*tching at him? If Clark was about "abandoning people" as Lois so kindly said, why would he bother warning her ungrateful butt? Wouldn't he just have washed his hands of it, and let the chips fall where they may? Might it have sparked something in Lois' tiny pee brain that if Clark was there, warning her, after having gone to see Ollie, that he already had gotten involved?

how it wasn't as rude to me as it was to you, because what Lois said was 100 percent true.

So, you believe that Clark abandons people when they need help? OK, good to know.

You're not? I thought you were.

Nope, really not. And since Chloe and Lois fans are quite outspoken in defense of their favorite characters (and more power to them), I see no reason not to be just as adament in defense of Clark.

And Word to that Mischael12. I read the funniest thing on LJ where someone was proposing that Clark tell everyone off. It was hilarious.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by BadToad
And if Clark doesn't X-Ray the file, rip it open and get the files, does Chloe find Oliver? The reason I'm "fighting you on this" is because I think you are absolutely and completely dead wrong, and I think your issues with Chloe are clouding the way you see any scene with her. You've said she "figured it out"...she didn't. You said she "did all the investigating"...she didn't. Why are you fixated on this one thing? That she knew the halfway house was funded by Lex, information that was dropped in her lap by Lana? That was just one piece of the overall scene that Chloe knew and Clark didn't. Does Clark find Ollie without it? Well, we can't say, can we? It didn't happen. And yes, definitely, SV is often about getting from point A to point B the fastest way possible. The fastest way here was Clark and Chloe working together...he finds the file, she tells him what she knows, he runs off to save the day.

I'm proving the point that it was Chloe who was the one that ultimately pushed the story forward. You're telling me that Clark ripped open the the safe, very true, but it was Clark who ran to Chloe for help after the Lois scene. That makes what Lois told Clark about calling Chloe the right choice. Lois simply eliminated the middle man and went straight to the person who was going to have enough information to get the job done, and that was Chloe, not Clark.

He went to her because he knew she was going to get information about the drug from her contact. The drug she got from him. And when he looked, and he couldn't find Ollie (which BTW, is totally believable), yes, he came to Chloe. What was he supposed to do? Give up and go home? He was still trying to find Ollie. So, his effort only counts if no one named Chloe helps him?

He went to Chloe because he was totally out of ideas and didn't know what to do next. And no, Clark is not supposed to give up and go home, but he also hit a brick wall and needed Chloe's information to make his next move. This is not all about Chloe, this is about Lois and the writers taking a shot at Clark because he is not the smart investigator on this show and I am becoming a little tired of that. I have a problem with Lois' line there at the hospital, but it has more to do with a writing issue for me than a nastiness issue that you have, that's all.

And you keep avoiding my question...what did Lois think Chloe was going to do? We have no way of knowing if Lois was aware of Chloe getting the drug sample to her bio chem friend (the episode never addresses it). So, what did Lois think Chloe was going to do?

Does Lois know that Chloe has contacts? Does Lois know that Chloe has access to computer systems and she is an expert at using them, and I'm not being scarcastic here, she really is good at using them. Does Lois know that Clark always goes to Chloe for help? "Yes" would be my answer to all of these questions which means that it was a smart move for Lois to call Chloe. The fact that the very next scene that Clark was in was going to Chloe for help, that confirms that Lois' decision was right on the money, IMO. I'll get to the nastiness issue in a bit.

And if you are really worried about your boyfriend, should you really piss all over anyone thats trying to help? Since Lois and Clark managed to find Chloe in the very first eps that Lois appeared in (in fact, Clark found her first), then Lois does have firsthand experiance with the fact that Clark can, and will, find people and help them. Sorry, I don't believe in the idea of characters on this show having complete memory loss when it comes to how Clark has personally helped them.

A lot has changed since Crusade. Since the beginning of season 5, Clark has used Chloe's brain/computer skills/whatever you want to call it a lot more. Lois knows that Clark goes to Chloe for help. Answer me this....how would Lois think that Clark is great at researching things and investigating things without having a job that supplies the proper equipment and the contacts that Chloe has? Does Lois think that Clark just magically has all of the information stored in his head? Lois knows that Clark goes to Chloe, so calling Chloe there as I've said before seems like the logical choice. Let's also remember that Lois and Clark were at the Smallville Medical Center and Oliver was most likely in Metropolis. Now why would Lois think that Clark could get over to Metropolis in time to find Oliver, that's a 3 hour drive. At least Chloe was already in Metropolis with a huge computer system at her disposal.

Except it doesn't, as I've provided you with examples of Clark going to Lionel in "Arrow" and "Reunion". So, you just don't want Clark to work with Chloe at all then?

Never said that. I just want to see Clark attempt to do his own investigating where he doesn't rely on Chloe's supercomputer to reach the endpoint. This really doesn't have as much to do with Chloe as it does with Clark. I'd like to see him capable of doing some research, show me that he can handle things on his own once in a while. And in certain situations and certain episodes, Clark relying on Chloe's computer does tend to make him look, let's just say less than intelligent. I don't want to see that.

Ah, but she's right to crap all over other people then? I see

Let's just say that it's a two way street here V. Clark dishes it out to Lois as well...what was it that he said to Oliver in regards to Lois at the beginning of Arrow? Oh that's right, he told Ollie that it was nice to see someone overlook Lois' personality. Both trash the other, it's not like Lois goes nuts on Clark and he doesn't return the favor. Perhaps he didn't in this episode because he knew that Lois was right to call Chloe and that he was going to end up going to her anyway?

Arrow, Reunion

He still relied on Chloe's help in Arrow, with that image that she was able to render on her computer. I didn't really view that as a big deal though because it was Clark who recognized the image from Oliver's apartment. Arrow was a very good episode for Clark. Reunion was solid as well. You are right about those two, but it is only two episodes.

And I think what they've written is an easy way for them to have Clark out there, doing all the action, interacting with people, saving the day, while they use the Chloe character to be the hacker and sidekick. Do they go overboard sometimes? Yes. Do I feel its to the extent you describe? No. Chloe is good at this stuff. She's always been good at this stuff. Why wouldn't Clark employ those resources if it helps him get things done?

Because we are nearing the end of this show now and Chloe won't be around for Clark to use forever, at least I'm guessing that she won't be. It would be nice if we saw Clark start to pick up some of those skills, not become a hacker, but someone who can find out information on the internet. I don't believe we've seen him use a computer since perhaps season 4? Maybe he used a computer in Tomb, since Chloe wasn't around to help, can't remember that episode though. For a guy who is supposed to be a journalist in the future, it would be nice if we did see him attempt to look up some info for a change. I don't think that's too much to ask.

You brought it up first. If you are going to use this thread to slam Clark, and Chloe, then why would you expect someone not to respond? You could've just kept it on topic and said you thought that Lois was justifiably upset, just being her usual nasty self, and wanted to use Chloe's resources. I wouldn't have had any issue with that.

I'm not using this thread to slam Clark and Chloe, I mainly slammed the writers. And you know better than anyone that threads don't stay on topic all of the time. In this case, I was referring to what Lois said and giving my honest opinion about it, even though my response ended up going into another direction. I was still responding to Lois' comment though. Then because you and I seem to have these massive debates that take up pages and pages, all hell broke loose. That's ok though, because I blame you entirely for it. Just kidding.

I'm not sure what "end of the world rude" is supposed to mean. When you are deliberately rude to someone, its rude. When you hit them below the belt with a nasty comment that you know better about, its rude. When someone is sincerely offering you help, and you blow them off rudely, its rude. This isn't teasing, or banter, or playfulness. This was flat out rude. I just don't find deliberately rude people charming.

Meaning that you seem to think totally different of Lois after those two comments were made. I just don't look at it like that given the situation. You don't agree and that's fine.

Why should anyone need to? Why should Lois need to? How long has she known him now? How many times has she seen him help people? Did she not just see him showing concern for Ollie and Lex in "Reunion"? I don't know why you are so insistent that these people need constant reenforcement that Clark actually has helped them. Do they need weekly reminders? Clark to keep a list, to roll out whenever one of them starts b*tching at him? If Clark was about "abandoning people" as Lois so kindly said, why would he bother warning her ungrateful butt? Wouldn't he just have washed his hands of it, and let the chips fall where they may? Might it have sparked something in Lois' tiny pee brain that if Clark was there, warning her, after having gone to see Ollie, that he already had gotten involved?

I feel that everything that I typed above is sort of a waste because now we are getting into the heart of the problem here and a place where I can make some points of how I really feel without involving Chloe.

I think it's a combination of two things, terrible writing with no consistency and what happens in a particular scene. As for the writing, this show is filled with bad writing where characters don't remember things that happen in the past. This is nothing new, especially when dealing with a character that doesn't know the truth about Clark. The writers can very easily pretend like other episodes never happened to up the drama. Once a character knows the truth about Clark and knows for sure what he is all about, it's very difficult to have them bash Clark in any way. That's the writing aspect. Now I don't think that Lois didn't appreciate that Clark was trying to warn her, I think that she wanted to take action and Clark wasn't prepared to do it. Did you see Clark walk out the door with Lois in that first scene? If he was going to help Oliver, why not tell Lois that he was going to come with her, especially if he felt that it was too dangerous for Lois to go herself? You keep telling me that Lois should know that Clark helps people and that he was going to find Oliver, well Clark had his chance to prove it in that scene and he stood there as Lois walked out to go find him. So I guess that Clark either goes alone and is all secretive or he doesn't go at all? Makes no sense. That is what setup the hospital scene where Lois was worried and after Clark apparently either didn't do anything or had no luck in finding Oliver, depending on what Lois thought there, she decided to go to Chloe because she felt that she was the best chance at finding Oliver.

So, you believe that Clark abandons people when they need help? OK, good to know.

No, you misunderstood what I said there. I wasn't referring to abandoning people, I was referring to Lois' decision to call Chloe and how she was right to make the call, IMO.

Nope, really not. And since Chloe and Lois fans are quite outspoken in defense of their favorite characters (and more power to them), I see no reason not to be just as adament in defense of Clark.

Nothing wrong with that. You do know that I was joking when I questioned you agreeing with me about Clark, Lois and Chloe right? I knew you didn't agree with me. I even put one of those faces after that question because I know my lack of faces led to a disaster back in season 5 during one of our debates.

[ginnyfan]

Re: What is with Lois putting down Clark?

Originally posted by Wombat
I was rewatching Rage during the re-airing on Sunday and the Lois line of (paraphased the best I remember) "unlike you Clark, I don't abandon those in need" really struck the wrong nerve with me. Why would she say this? And what would make her believe that Clark has ever abandoned anyone? Clark said nothing about him staying away, just wanting her to stay away for her own safety. That doesn't sound like he abandoned GA to me. Now I can understand if Lois said no, she's going to help out anyways. But I can't understand the accusation of Clark abandoning those in need.

If it's sarcasm, it crossed a line and were I Clark I would had been angered by that declaration especially knowing that Lois knows Clark does try to help whenever he can, even if she's only aware of a smidgen of what he does.

It was very odd. Especially since in past episodes Lois has marvelled at Clark's remarkable ability to come through for people and not give up on people even when they "walk all over him." So... I didn't dig too deeply... I chalked it up to bad writing.

[mobiusklein]

What are you going to do if she keeps on doing this? Then it becomes a trend.

[ginnyfan]

Start hating Lois. LOL! Hopefully all the writers won't be this... flawed when it comes to Lois. I mean especially when I think of Reunion and Sneeze and Zod... Lois is... a tough pill to swallow but some of the stuff she said in this episode just didn't make any sense... I couldn't look at it from a character POV it was so bad... It was glaringly a lack of continuity.

And it's as easy as, "Oliver needs me. I don't abandon people who need my help." If she'd said that it would have been perfect. There's a difference between banter and insults.

[Kryptonian-Ronin]

It was bad writing, pure and simple.

[BadToad]

I'm going to try and keep this short, because this is getting tiresome.

Let's just say that it's a two way street here V. Clark dishes it out to Lois as well...what was it that he said to Oliver in regards to Lois at the beginning of Arrow? Oh that's right, he told Ollie that it was nice to see someone overlook Lois' personality.

Did this, or did this not, come after finding out that Lois had been talking behind his back to her new boyfriend, referring to him as a geek?

Perhaps he didn't in this episode because he knew that Lois was right to call Chloe and that he was going to end up going to her anyway?

That makes no sense, since Clark didn't respond to her rude jab in her apartment before any of the hospital stuff happened. Clark just has an annoying habit of just standing there and taking other peoples abuse. I know its part of the character, but I wish he'd snap back.

I don't believe we've seen him use a computer since perhaps season 4?

Wow, then he must have some other superpower ability, since he was able to erase Chloe's files on the GA in "Arrow". Or, does it not count if we don't see it?

It was very odd. Especially since in past episodes Lois has marvelled at Clark's remarkable ability to come through for people and not give up on people even when they "walk all over him." So... I didn't dig too deeply... I chalked it up to bad writing.

And I can totally respect that One of my frustrations with the Lois character is that they tend to write her without taking care, so to speak. Feisty, sarcastic, witty, ballsy...these are all good qualities. Lois can be very cute and funny sometimes. But with Clark, they have a tendency to go over that line. As someone that wants to be able to visualize a future Clois, and believes its inevitable, it really bothers me. IMO

[Dor el]

It seems to me that iconic Lois is not rude or mean mouthed. Blunt? Yes. Honest? Usually. Aggresive? Yes. But, my impression of iconic Lois is that she is polite, smart, curious, well spoken, usually grateful for help, and very capable of investigating on her own. Does she use resources available to her? Yes. So does Clark/Superman. Using available resources is smart not whimpy. Using those resources doesn't make you stupid or lazy.

I have a problem with Lois being in SV now. Knowing Clark now. I do not like the SV Lois character at all. No matter how they try to retrofit SV Lois, IMO she just doesn't fit in there. SV Lois has had glimmers of promise and characteristics similar to iconic Lois, but not enough. SV Lois has been portrayed as a beer guzzling, potty-mouthed, loose woman who, on occasion, resembles iconic Lois. I currently have more hope that Clark will turn like he is supposed to than I do that Lois will. It appears to me that Lois is there to provide minimal comic relief and eye candy for some.

Has she had some good lines? Yes. But, for me, her snarky, hurtful, smart remarks overshadow any positive she brings to the show.

[Paul Satanic]

Originally posted by Dor el


Has she had some good lines? Yes. But, for me, her snarky, hurtful, smart remarks overshadow any positive she brings to the show.

Smallville writers are just so tragic when it comes to continuity. Lois and Clark can't be friends one week and insult each other the next. It makes NO sense!

[ClarksGal]

Re: What is with Lois putting down Clark?

Originally posted by Wombat
I was rewatching Rage during the re-airing on Sunday and the Lois line of (paraphased the best I remember) "unlike you Clark, I don't abandon those in need" really struck the wrong nerve with me. Why would she say this? And what would make her believe that Clark has ever abandoned anyone? Clark said nothing about him staying away, just wanting her to stay away for her own safety. That doesn't sound like he abandoned GA to me. Now I can understand if Lois said no, she's going to help out anyways. But I can't understand the accusation of Clark abandoning those in need.

If it's sarcasm, it crossed a line and were I Clark I would had been angered by that declaration especially knowing that Lois knows Clark does try to help whenever he can, even if she's only aware of a smidgen of what he does.

She was really rude to Clark in that episode. I'm not sure if it's the writing or the acting...I like when ED plays Lois as playfully sharp, where she's really just teasing him. But there's a difference between teasing and outright mean-ness. Maybe the writers can show Clark as what softens her up a bit, in which case I can envision a future relationship with them. Right now, I just don't see it at all.

[~*Lois & Clark Fan*~]

Originally posted by RedPhoenix23
Oh jeeze, Clark isn't made of glass. Trust me, he's not going to shatter if someone says something that you may think hurts his feelings. Clarkie needs a good kick to the behind every once and awhile. Especially when he tell's Lois to stay away from her BOYFRIEND, he's got no room to talk in the romance department. Cut and run, isn't everyone's style. Clark better learn that, or he's never going to land Lois.

LOL, and Lois calling Chloe to help instead of just nodding and agreeing with Clark made perfect sense. Chloe is the real hero afterall! Clark is just her little beeatch. Especially since the question of the day is: Where did Clark go right after his conversation with Lois at the hospital? TO SEE CHLOE! LOL, if I was Lois, I'd go straight to the source as well. You don't talk to the muscle, you talk to the brains of the operation! Duh!

at your post

Stuff like doesn't bother me, it's who the Lois Lane character is. Geesh Teri Hatcher's Lois in Season 1 of L&C was much more brutal to her Clark, than SV's Lois can ever be to this Clark.

[Nightingale20]

The only thing wrong to me was the abandon line. It just didn't add up with what she has said before. However, that certainly is not going to taint the way I see Lois.