LOIS AND CLARK General Discussion Thread

[Livstevi21]

I started watching this series a few weeks ago because I missed Smallville so much, and wanted a old-new show to watch, so this series was the perfect choice. I am already half way through season 2! I like that this series focused on Lois and Clark's relationship and how they develop as partners at the DP, become close friends and then eventually fall in love. Teri Hatcher and Dean Cain had such wonderful chemistry as Lois and Clark. Dean Cain definitely has to be the most romantic Clark Kent, and what I've seen so far played him with such charm. I think he's great as Superman too. The rest of the cast was just about perfect. Lane Smith was definitely the best Perry White. I also love the fact that both Jonathan and Martha are around for Clark/Superman when he needs them. Little things like Jonathan ironing his suit and almost burning it was a recent highlight for me. Plus, it was the 90's. Who doesn't love any show like this from that decade? The effects may not be have been great, but they were for the time period.

This show oozes charm, the comedy side is fantastic, and the relationship between Lois and Clark/Superman is perfect. I can't wait to watch the rest! It's just such a shame that there were only four seasons.

[Austin 3:16]

Looks like The Hub has reduced the series reruns to 2 each Sunday instead of 3 that's repeated. So it'll be L&C for 2 hrs then Hercules: The Legendary Journeys followed by Sliders then ALF. I get y they stopped doing the Sunday night lineup of Lois for 6 hrs because theyve gone through the eps b4 but I still miss it.

Tonight there r no episodes of L&C scheduled. Hope it's just a one night thing.

[Austin 3:16]

I looked on the Directv guide for Lois and Clark and nothing shows up. Wonder if it is on hold by Hub for right now.

[~*Lois & Clark Fan*~]

could be the ratings weren't good, or they went through all the cycles for the show.

[Austin 3:16]

That'd be my guesses too. Maybe they're waiting to bring it back during the summer like last yr.

[Fish1941]

Does anyone recall the Krypton story arc on "LOIS AND CLARK" featured at the end of Season 3 and the beginning of Season 4? The arc began with the Season 3 episode (3.21) "Through a Glass, Darkly" and ended with the Season 4 episode, (4.02) Battleground Earth". It turned out better than I had remembered.

[DA_Champion]

I just finished going through this show. I want to say that this is overall a really excellent show, and that it has a lot going for it. It's a very different interpretation of Superman than I've seen in either the movies, the comics, or smallville, and I enjoyed it a great deal.

This is now a show I'd expect it to like. The characters are relatively static and most of the episodes are one-offs that don't contribute to the greater narrative arc, there are a lot of cheap plot devices, the villains are cheesy, the supporting characters (Perry, Jimmy) were cardboard cutouts, and there is little in the way of greater mythology. However, the strengths more than made up for it. Teri Hatcher was both stunning and compelling as Lois Lane, and Dean Cain came off as a Superman.

The romance was really good. In a mere 4 years, they completed a plausible journey from work colleagues, to friends, to lovers, to engaged lovers, to married couples, and they ended up as new parents. They covered the triangle for two and reached a satisfactory conclusion to it, and the show gets a famous line out of it, "who's asking, Clark, or Superman?" which is Lois' response to Clark's proposal at the end of season 2. I just typed the line into google: 1,010,000 results in 0.24 seconds. Youtube link of the proposal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7mQ8cvuFBw

and follow-up conversation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBAUzaHrM20

The second video includes a comparison to Smallville. I hadn't noticed that plagiarism before... it's actually really funny.

The only downside for Lois Lane's arc, and I feel bad even including one, is season 3. In season 3, she lost something like 25 lbs which made her a lot less attractive, and the producers dressed her differently. She also behaved differently, she was much more of a damsel in distress in that season, always getting saved, always being vulnerable. She was taken advantage of by Lex, and then again by that creepy psychologist who tried to control her life. The only exception was an independent episode involving the shrinking shampoo, which apparently was written by Teri Hatcher. For these reasons and others, I consider season 3 to be the low point of the series. In season 4, she had more energy, more agency, and she gained some weight, and was overall more interesting.

I like how CK and Superman are written. He doesn't hide his identity by being a "bumbling idiot". Clark Kent comes off as a respectable individual, he doesn't have bad posture, he doesn't stutter, etc. There's no annoying loser/winner dichotomy to support the dual identity and hide the secret. He just comes off as a genuinely nice and competent guy.

The series mostly respects the "do not kill" rule with a few exceptions, like when Superman kills the guy with a druid mask. It often gets out of the do not kill rule by having other people do the kill. Lex committed suicide once, and then died a second time when a cave collapsed and Superman couldn't save him. The two intergang leaders were killed by their successor. Most of the prisoners are sent to jail.

Clark's parents were done differently. Jonathan doesn't die, ever. They're not the realistic parents of MOS, they're not the forgettable parents of the Donnerverse, and they're not the platitude-spouting fairy tale parents of Smallville. They came off as simple, down-to-earth parents. Like if you made a room full of ordinary people in the age range 55-70, and you picked out a few of the gentler-hearted ones, you might end up with Jonathan and Martha from LnC. They didn't do much other than "support Clark", but that's the way this show was written, Lois and Clark are the only actual characters in this show. Everybody else is a support character. That's a legitimate way to write a show.

Perry White, Jimmy Olsen, Cat Grant, Dr. Bernard Klein, all felt like stock characters. They contributed a bit of warmth to the show, like when Perry White got back together with Alice near the end of season 4, it was a nice moment. His Elvis Shtick was fun, but got old. Jimmy Olsen was written as a loser, and I don't know why that's necessary. Cat Grant, I felt, had missed potential. I may be biased because I love the actress, but she was mostly a caricature in season 1. Her best moment is when she behaves like a real person, and at one point tells Lois to stop bragging, as she has both Clark and Superman after her. It was a moment of humanity and a good one. In season 2, Cat Grant disappears, and none of the characters ever comment.

I did not like the villains. Usually, this would mean that I hate the show as I consider the hero-villain dichotomy important... but it didn't matter here as the show made up for it in other ways. There is one villain that I liked though: Tempus. I liked his attitude, his laugh, and how the actor played him, and the homage to the excellent 1960s science fiction movie "The Time Machine". As I watched the episode, I found myself wishing that Smallville had had the wisdom to make a parallel reality 2-part episode where the time machine was used to transport from the LnC world to the Smallville world. It could have been like the Seinfeld reunion on Curb Your Enthusiasm. Having Tempus take on both Lois-Clark pairs, and use it as a backdoor finale for LnC. Smallville, unfortunately, probably never even looked into it.

Summary,
Weaknesses of the Show:
- Lack of compelling villains
- Lack of broader mythology
- Only two actual characters
- Only 4 seasons, and season 3 was subpar
- No definitive ending, not even in comic book form.

Strengths of the Show
- Portrayal of Lois and Clark
- Supportive environment for the two of them
- Narratively coherent romantic arc for Lois and Clark
- General happy feel to the show, a lot of feel good moments
- Tempus and H.G. Wells.

Overall: 8-9/10

I think this is a better show than Smallville, though Smallville had its strengths too. If you could combine the two shows you might have the perfect Superman show. I hope at some point in the next 30 or 40 years we get that show... I'd like to see a Young Clark Kent show that starts with him just after college, he can join the daily planet in season 2 or season 3.

[Fish1941]

I just finished going through this show. I want to say that this is overall a really excellent show, and that it has a lot going for it. It's a very different interpretation of Superman than I've seen in either the movies, the comics, or smallville, and I enjoyed it a great deal.

This is now a show I'd expect it to like. The characters are relatively static and most of the episodes are one-offs that don't contribute to the greater narrative arc, there are a lot of cheap plot devices, the villains are cheesy, the supporting characters (Perry, Jimmy) were cardboard cutouts, and there is little in the way of greater mythology. However, the strengths more than made up for it. Teri Hatcher was both stunning and compelling as Lois Lane, and Dean Cain came off as a Superman.

The romance was really good. In a mere 4 years, they completed a plausible journey from work colleagues, to friends, to lovers, to engaged lovers, to married couples, and they ended up as new parents. They covered the triangle for two and reached a satisfactory conclusion to it, and the show gets a famous line out of it, "who's asking, Clark, or Superman?" which is Lois' response to Clark's proposal at the end of season 2. I just typed the line into google: 1,010,000 results in 0.24 seconds. Youtube link of the proposal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7mQ8cvuFBw

and follow-up conversation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBAUzaHrM20

The second video includes a comparison to Smallville. I hadn't noticed that plagiarism before... it's actually really funny.

The only downside for Lois Lane's arc, and I feel bad even including one, is season 3. In season 3, she lost something like 25 lbs which made her a lot less attractive, and the producers dressed her differently. She also behaved differently, she was much more of a damsel in distress in that season, always getting saved, always being vulnerable. She was taken advantage of by Lex, and then again by that creepy psychologist who tried to control her life. The only exception was an independent episode involving the shrinking shampoo, which apparently was written by Teri Hatcher. For these reasons and others, I consider season 3 to be the low point of the series. In season 4, she had more energy, more agency, and she gained some weight, and was overall more interesting.

I like how CK and Superman are written. He doesn't hide his identity by being a "bumbling idiot". Clark Kent comes off as a respectable individual, he doesn't have bad posture, he doesn't stutter, etc. There's no annoying loser/winner dichotomy to support the dual identity and hide the secret. He just comes off as a genuinely nice and competent guy.

The series mostly respects the "do not kill" rule with a few exceptions, like when Superman kills the guy with a druid mask. It often gets out of the do not kill rule by having other people do the kill. Lex committed suicide once, and then died a second time when a cave collapsed and Superman couldn't save him. The two intergang leaders were killed by their successor. Most of the prisoners are sent to jail.

Clark's parents were done differently. Jonathan doesn't die, ever. They're not the realistic parents of MOS, they're not the forgettable parents of the Donnerverse, and they're not the platitude-spouting fairy tale parents of Smallville. They came off as simple, down-to-earth parents. Like if you made a room full of ordinary people in the age range 55-70, and you picked out a few of the gentler-hearted ones, you might end up with Jonathan and Martha from LnC. They didn't do much other than "support Clark", but that's the way this show was written, Lois and Clark are the only actual characters in this show. Everybody else is a support character. That's a legitimate way to write a show.

Perry White, Jimmy Olsen, Cat Grant, Dr. Bernard Klein, all felt like stock characters. They contributed a bit of warmth to the show, like when Perry White got back together with Alice near the end of season 4, it was a nice moment. His Elvis Shtick was fun, but got old. Jimmy Olsen was written as a loser, and I don't know why that's necessary. Cat Grant, I felt, had missed potential. I may be biased because I love the actress, but she was mostly a caricature in season 1. Her best moment is when she behaves like a real person, and at one point tells Lois to stop bragging, as she has both Clark and Superman after her. It was a moment of humanity and a good one. In season 2, Cat Grant disappears, and none of the characters ever comment.

I did not like the villains. Usually, this would mean that I hate the show as I consider the hero-villain dichotomy important... but it didn't matter here as the show made up for it in other ways. There is one villain that I liked though: Tempus. I liked his attitude, his laugh, and how the actor played him, and the homage to the excellent 1960s science fiction movie "The Time Machine". As I watched the episode, I found myself wishing that Smallville had had the wisdom to make a parallel reality 2-part episode where the time machine was used to transport from the LnC world to the Smallville world. It could have been like the Seinfeld reunion on Curb Your Enthusiasm. Having Tempus take on both Lois-Clark pairs, and use it as a backdoor finale for LnC. Smallville, unfortunately, probably never even looked into it.

Summary,
Weaknesses of the Show:
- Lack of compelling villains
- Lack of broader mythology
- Only two actual characters
- Only 4 seasons, and season 3 was subpar
- No definitive ending, not even in comic book form.

Strengths of the Show
- Portrayal of Lois and Clark
- Supportive environment for the two of them
- Narratively coherent romantic arc for Lois and Clark
- General happy feel to the show, a lot of feel good moments
- Tempus and H.G. Wells.

Overall: 8-9/10

I think this is a better show than Smallville, though Smallville had its strengths too. If you could combine the two shows you might have the perfect Superman show. I hope at some point in the next 30 or 40 years we get that show... I'd like to see a Young Clark Kent show that starts with him just after college, he can join the daily planet in season 2 or season 3.

I couldn't agree with everything you said. But I'm just too exhausted to go over it, paragraph by paragraph, especially since I had referred to a four-episode arc, instead of the entire series.

[DA_Champion]

I couldn't agree with everything you said. But I'm just too exhausted to go over it, paragraph by paragraph, especially since I had referred to a four-episode arc, instead of the entire series.

I wasn't specifically responding to your post. I made a general post, sorry for the confusion :-)

[Rival X The Great]

I love this show. Dean Cain is my favorite Superman.

[jon-el87]

Rewatched "Twas the Night Before Mxymas" yesterday. Been ages since I last watched it. Having also picked up a digital copy of his first post-COIE appearance, at the same time, I understand why they went with a simple time loop. In the comic in question, he turns a toy gorilla into a real one. Lois gets turned into a mannequin, while a mannequin gets brought to life. And causes the Daily Planet building to become alive. Not really something you could've done on Live-Action TV in 1996. The episode had to settle with him turning a dog into a toy and minor things like that. And Mxyzptlk is certainly more sinister here, than I can ever recall him being in the comics.

Mxyzptlk does seem to be tricky to do in Live-Action. The 80's Superboy series is the only one to try to capture the appearance of the character. Here they have him in black, bearded and with piercings. And Smallville portrayed him as a foreign exhange student, with verbal mind control powers (rather than magical reality warping abilities). So, Live-Action struggles with both his appearance and abilities (likely due to budget concerns) and personality (with both L&C and SV making him more villainous). Perhaps he simply is a character better suited for animation.

[Aurora Moon]

The one thing I liked about "Lois and Clark: Adventures of superman" is that it was mainly a series about Lois and Clark's romance, and that Superman only played a small part of it. Most series tend to overly focus on the superpowers aspect, and or exclusively focus on Superman instead of the real person behind the costume.
In most stories, the focus is exclusively on Superman with Lois Lane existing only as an love interest for superman to rescue, etc. You don't get many stories about Clark Kent being a reporter, and how he does his job.

But in L&C it's all about the human side of the Superman mythology, and Lois Lane plays a very strong part in it. you get to see things from her viewpoint, as well as Clark's. In a way, L&C managed to take all the parts that most people claimed would be way too boring to watch, and made it watchable. People think a series about Clark Kent (without showing much of Superman) would be dull, but L&C proves them wrong. It's great when a TV series is able to explore different sides of an mythology and give us different viewpoint on it.

[DJ Doena]

But in L&C it's all about the human side of the Superman mythology, and Lois Lane plays a very strong part in it. you get to see things from her viewpoint, as well as Clark's. In a way, L&C managed to take all the parts that most people claimed would be way too boring to watch, and made it watchable. People think a series about Clark Kent (without showing much of Superman) would be dull, but L&C proves them wrong. It's great when a TV series is able to explore different sides of an mythology and give us different viewpoint on it.

On top of that you also have a Clark who stands up for what he believes in and also has a playful side. You can see this early on when he chews out a police officer who makes jokes about a murder victim in the pilot and during (what basically is) the L&C version of the Smallville episode Exposed called I've Got a Crush on You where Lois & Clark go undercover in a mobster's night club and Clark throws Lois out in the trash.

[Vergon6]

While I found the effects or stories cheesy at times, watching some of the episodes again, I appreciate what you guys are talking about. I also liked that Clark in this series more fit the modern age, rather than the silver age. I feel like bumbling Clark just calls more attentiin to himself.

[HalJordan4184]

Lois and Clark is still the gold standard I judge Superman series by. The more I've watched, the more disappointed I get after Season 2, but that's the studios fault. I've watched a few interviews with Deborah Joy Levine who ran the first season, and it was very clear the studio kept pushing for more Superman, and less relationship stuff. I still miss this show, and frequently go back and watch old episodes.