Talk about Gotham's 5x11 here
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Gotham 5x11 They Did What?
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The episode was kind of slow, but still enjoyable.
I will try not to rattle on, but: The part that got me the most was when they showed the portrait of Thomas and Martha inside WE, and—of course—the Bruce/Alfred scenes.
I didn't expect Bruce to leave the city, but—based on the trailer for next week (and the recent films)—it makes sense. I wonder how much time will elapse and where everyone will be when he returns? It makes sense that al Ghul would be at large, but I wouldn't mind if they killed her off post-haste. She was SO incredibly annoying!
As for Jim, he is exactly where he should be so I have no complaints there. Kind of funny that the baby was named "Barbara Lee." Did I or did I not say that she was going to be named after Lee in some way? It's ok, but only because I haven't found Thompkins to be quite as nauseating in these last few episodes.
Anyway, it was pretty solid, and I'm EXCITED for next week. I can't wait to see how it will all end!
What did everybody else think? -
I thought it was a decent episode over all
I enjoyed all the character interactions, in this for the varying characters.
This episode even makes me feel sorry for Penquin and Riddler how they got cast aside after trying to help save Gotham.
Now for two things that really bugs me in this episode and I'm like laughing at the stupidity at the same time to
First is in 5x01 the wall battle for Gotham was clearly at night when they got out to the wall, but in the episode it was in perfect daylight. What the heck Gotham? That is just so extremely stupid
Second I knew Bruce and Selina were going to part on bad terms so I was preparing myself for this really great scene where Bruce and Selina have a conversation where Bruce tells her he is going to leaving to go train and it's a real gut punch.
What to do these writers do instead? They have Bruce leave her a note and she misses Bruce at the airport? Are you kidding me Gotham writers you people actually took the lazier road. I can't even believe I'm more of upset at the lack of a great parting on bad terms scene for Bruce leaving with Bruce and Selina, face to face then I am over it actually happening.
They blew a perfect chance for a really great scene
Plus what a real jerk move Bruce for leaving a note instead of having the guts to do it in person. Like Gotham writers were you trying to make us hate Bruce? You gave him a good bye scene with Gordon, could have used a note for Gordon and Alfred for in person. Nothing for Selina? Yeah not a fan of that one.
And speaking of Bruce I'm a little confused since I'm not sure is it Bruce leaving to go train to better protect Gotham or to go hunt down Nyssa? The show was a little unclear on that one.
Which finally Jim Gordon has become the Commissioner and I am excited for next week to see how all this ends.Comment
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I guess we should look at this as a series finale with next week's episode being a bonus? If you look at it as a whole, in this episode everything lined up the way we know it will in the Batman mythos. Jim became Commissioner, Bruce left Gotham so that he will return as Batman in a few years (probably 10 years, Aries), Riddler and Nygma became villains and Selina got her heart broken which will make her the jaded grey character we know as Catwoman. As a pre-Batman series, it just served its purpose. Mind you, I'm still looking forward to next week! I'm dying to see this show's version of a Batman world. Anyway, this episode wrapped up the No Man's Land storyline pretty well, I thought. I do have some nitpicks, but overall they did the arc justice, IMO. Random observations:
Jim was very heroic. This episode was his crowning moment and solidified who's the true hero of this show. I also liked his scenes with Lee, Barbara and baby Barbara. I give this show a lot of credit for toning down the melodrama and making these 4 a family of sorts.
Thankfully I was aware of the "Barbara Lee Gordon" name before I watched this. So I avoided any puking. Look, I'm going easy on Lee nowdays, but that was still too forced for my liking.
I don't know how to feel about this episode's villains. Both Nyssa and Bane were kind of underwhelming and I don't see how they will be threats to Batman in the future. Especially Bane, who got beat by teenage versions of Bruce and Selina. And while I understand what they were trying to do with the bats, the moment still came off as cheesy and contrived.
Speaking of Nyssa, what is she going to do with poor Edward the dog?
My biggest nitpick is what Haggard mentioned as well. Go back and watch the opening scene of the season. The standoff between the GCPD and Bane's army takes place clearly at night! On top of that, the way Penguin, Nygma and Bullock join Jim is different to what we saw here (Bullock was alone at a bar, Nygma was at his house and Penguin was preparing at City Hall). I can forgive shows if they retcon stuff that happened a few seasons back, but we're talking about an 11-episode gap here. Was it so difficult to maintain continuity?
The scene between Nygma and Penguin was brilliant storytelling. I was worried about how the show would explain why these two became villains again after they protected Gotham and this scene explained it very well. Both these guys are so inclined to gravitate to their criminal nature that they convinced themselves that the city underappeciated them. So they decided to lash out against it. Even their reluctance to stab each other works because it plays well into their love-hate relationship.
The Bruce and Selina situation became unnecessarily messy. I think the writers painted themselves into a corner here. They kept bringing these two closer and closer (and truth be told, they make a cute couple of teenagers) without considering that they would have to break them up before the show ended. They should have planned ahead and figured out a way to make it happen without making Bruce look bad. Sadly, this is what happened here. He abandoned Selina without even saying goodbye and now we can make a solid arguement that Selina becomes the villain-ish Catwoman because of Bruce's betrayal. It wasn't my cup of tea at the time, but maybe turning Selina dark due to Ivy's seed would have been a much better alternative.
The funny thing with Bruce is that the show seems to have gotten a lot of aspects about his character backwards. For example, they have made him too heroic given his age. Even in this episode. He has shown maturity and fighting ability well beyond his years. Even his decision to leave Gotham isn't as shallow as it was in Batman Begins. He's doing it for a really good cause. To train further (I assume) and to drive potential enemies of his away from the city. So Bruce has shown a great sense of responsibility when he wasn't obligated to do, but showed a really irresponsible side of his character when he had to do something as simple as tell Selina he will leave.
Next week should be fun. Jeremiah looks scary and Erin Richards looks amazing with her long red hair.Comment
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I knew Bruce and Selina were going to part on bad terms so I was preparing myself for this really great scene . . . . They have Bruce leave her a note and she misses Bruce at the airport? Are you kidding me Gotham writers you people actually took the lazier road. . . .They blew a perfect chance for a really great scene
The only character I can think of would be The Sensei/Shaman (who led the Court of Owls), but he's dead—unless Bruce located one of his pupils? Then again, The Court was bent on destroying the city (and even kidnapped Bruce and replaced him with the 514A clone from Indian Hill) so I'm not sure that would work...
The better question would be what is Edward going to do with her? Hopefully, kill her!
The scene between Nygma and Penguin was brilliant storytelling. . . . they convinced themselves that the city underappeciated them. So they decided to lash out against it. Even their reluctance to stab each other works because it plays well into their love-hate relationship.
The Bruce and Selina situation became unnecessarily messy. . . . He abandoned Selina without even saying goodbye and now we can make a solid arguement that Selina becomes the villain-ish Catwoman because of Bruce's betrayal. . . . turning Selina dark due to Ivy's seed would have been a much better alternative.
Are we sure that was Barbara Keane and not Barbara Lee Gordon?Comment
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I didn't have such a strong reaction to it, honestly. The Bruce/Selina relationship has been WAY more mature than any other on the show. They know each other so well, so much so that part of me thinks Selina should've had suspected that he was going to leave. With that said, it was a jerk thing to do.
That's a good point. It's been forever since I've seen Batman Begins so I can't remember why it was he left in that instance, but: Since Ra's al Ghul is basically dead and his daughter has a vendetta against him, who is he going to train with?
The only character I can think of would be The Sensei/Shaman (who led the Court of Owls), but he's dead—unless Bruce located one of his pupils? Then again, The Court was bent on destroying the city (and even kidnapped Bruce and replaced him with the 514A clone from Indian Hill) so I'm not sure that would work...
Yeah the Court is for sure out in the show and in the comics or cartoon where the Court has appeared Bruce has never gotten training from them anyway.
Really the only thing she is missing is the suit and the name. Selina does not even need Bruce leaving for the longer aspect given Selina in this is a loner, she just has a close connection to Bruce and Alfred which lines up with the comics anyway.Last edited by Haggard01; 04-19-2019, 02:22 PM.Comment
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Speaking of actors playing older roles, apparently Camren won't play older Selina next week. She announced yesterday that this episode was her last. Next week, 2029!Selina will be played by Lili Simmons (who ironically also played a recast character on Westworld).
I must say, the one aspect that worries me about next week is indeed David Mazouz as Bruce in his late 20s. While he has grown up A LOT over the past 5 years, he still looks like a 18-year old kid. Don't know how believable he will be as a 28 year old (if they paint any grey hair on his head it will be so silly ). And I'm also worried about how believable his dark Batman voice will be.
Good point. You could also just assume that it happened the way it was shown (and everything we saw last night up to the last second) occurred BEFORE that, but: That still doesn't explain why the shootout took place in broad daylight. It's a glaring mistake, maybe they just overlooked it?
It makes more sense to me now, but as I watched it last night, I kept thinking it (and Nygma's speech) was bizarre, mainly because it seemed to come out of nowhere. The villain switch had been flipped. It seemed so one dimensional. Then again, it had to be done/explained if we're to believe that these characters end up where we know they do (i.e., the city will plunge back into chaos over time)
Heh, it must be Barbara senior! The daughter willbe 10 years old next week. Unless they do another flash forward and they show us Barbara Jr as a hero.
Speaking of, apparently in the post-Crisis comics, Jim's wife is indeed named Barbara Kean and she is a redhead. So Erin's character is rooted to the comics after all.Comment
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Heh, it must be Barbara senior! The daughter willbe 10 years old next week. Unless they do another flash forward and they show us Barbara Jr as a hero.
Speaking of, apparently in the post-Crisis comics, Jim's wife is indeed named Barbara Kean and she is a redhead. So Erin's character is rooted to the comics after all.Comment
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Oh...that kind of sucks, especially with the way they left her last night. I have no idea what it's like to be an actor, but it must be kind of disappointing to leave your character in such a place as Selina was only to find out someone else will take over that character in the Series Finale...
Here's the link to her letter: https://twitter.com/camrenbicondova/...16098166423552
Heh! If it's like Bale's in TDK, I won't mind. If it's like Bale's in BB, then I will start laughing.
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I forgot to mention that it was actually Camren's decision. . . .I'm guessing she thought an older actress would be more fitting to play future Selina. . . . Here's the link to her letter: https://twitter.com/camrenbicondova/...16098166423552
As far as I'm concerned, she's dog chowComment
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