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Loved It? Hated It? What did you think of "Inmate 4587?"

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  • Loved It? Hated It? What did you think of "Inmate 4587?"

    What did you think?
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  • #2
    Quite different from past seasons, but there is a throwback to the earlier seasons in terms of the List and some villains like Bronze Tiger. Flash forwards look to be their answer to no more flashbacks.

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    • #3
      Oliver's not having an easy go of it in prison, and he's still inside by end of ep. which is a good thing.

      It was cool to see some throwback villains from previous seasons.

      Didn't expect to see Lian Yu again. The mystery for me is if those flashforwards are from this earth/timeline, or an alternate one ...

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      • #4
        Don't plan on watching another episode anytime soon, but the flash forward thing sounds interesting and I might follow it every now and then. I must say that Colton looked so convincing as older Roy that I didn't recognize him when I watched the clip.
        Last edited by costas22; 10-16-2018, 06:33 AM.

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        • #5
          Over the past 2 years, I've seen maybe 5 episodes of Arrow. Decided to watch for the express purpose of Oliver's prison scenes (plus, curiosity now that Guggie's not the showrunner). Some pretty good prison fights, though the very last fight, where Oliver decides what the heck, he's going to just go after his tormentors was highly unbelievable in that, while he assaulted another inmate with a whatever-pound-weight, the guards just stood around. Can't think of any reason the guards would allow a prisoner, out in the open, with everyone watching, to act like that with no opposition from the guards. Why would the guards, with all their weapons (bats, stun guns, guns) just stand around with their mouths open? What kind of message does that send to other inmates with regard to how afraid they should be of the guards? How can guards maintain control, if the inmates aren't afraid of them?

          I liked that Oliver was presented with a moral dilemma regarding helping that inmate. I don't think there was a good answer for Oliver, either way. It's understandable he wanted to keep his head down and try to get out early with good behavior for the sake of his family, but I do think he also could have made the case that it was better he not show attachment to that guy or any other inmate, as any inmates he chose to be attached to or to protect could serve as targets for Sampson, Brick et al.to hold over Oliver as leverage - would be more dangerous for them, better for them if Oliver acts like he doesn't care.

          I liked that there is a new green arrow out there, who I suspect is Roy. Nice to have a green arrow out there, on his own, doing his thing. Made me realize how much I was sick of watching all the team stuff. Which I already knew anyway, but...

          I liked Rene. I also thought the rule of law versus vigilante debate was a good idea. If, as it seemed to me, Star City is trying to rebuild their police department and show that it is strong and effective, then allowing vigilantes to run around only serves to undermine faith in the police department, no matter how well-intentioned the vigilante may be. Ironically, in "helping" the cops the vigilante is hurting them by sending out the message that they don't have what it takes. Having said that, I still liked seeing Rene put on his hockey mask and help new green arrow.

          The flash forward to the island is interesting, because it seems like it must be what? at least 10 years in the future(is William 15 now?) I did think that guy was William, but almost didn't recognize Roy. I like the idea of a mystery: what is going on at that particular point in time, 10(?) years in the future, that William would have the need to go to Lian Yu? And what happened to Oliver during those 10(?) years.

          Felicity being in witness protection made no sense to me in terms of how that was being carried out. Unless it was just some kind of do-it-yourself witness protection, rather than official witness protection. If it were an official program: Why would she be allowed to keep her blonde hair, and just add purple color to the ends - why not a shorter more conservative haircut with dull brown hair? How smart is it to reveal to some random coffee house customer that she has computer skills above what an average person would have - she would have been advised to pretend to be pretty ignorant about computers in general. Finally, why was she allowed to keep and display out in the open, on her bedside table, a photo of herself and William, in which she is recognizable as Felicity Smoak, so that anyone who suspected she might be FS and broke into her apt looking for confirmation would find it right there for all to see? Not very smart on her part.

          So here's what I liked: Oliver's fight scenes, Rene, New Green Arrow, island mystery set in the future

          I'm going to try to keep watching while Oliver is in prison, but after that... not sure.

          (Oh, and did anyone else think that Officer Anastis(?) who seemed to be Dinah's right-hand man, looked like he could be Justin Hartley's brother?)

          Comment


          • #6
            Eh, Shelby, did you miss the fight in the cafeteria? Guards did the same thing there, letting Brick, Turner, and Sampson have at Oliver until Oliver wore them down. Then the guards stepped in.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by JDBentz
              Eh, Shelby, did you miss the fight in the cafeteria? Guards did the same thing there, letting Brick, Turner, and Sampson have at Oliver until Oliver wore them down. Then the guards stepped in.
              So true! To be honest, I really don't have very high expectations of prison guards being very effective in their jobs in hero-action adventure shows which require prison fight scenes I know I have to suspend some disbelief.

              In that cafeteria fight, I gave the guards the benefit of the doubt, in that 3 people were going at it with Oliver, it looked like a bit of a melee, and the guards would have had to wade in and take on 3 antagonists. And I'm sure the guards don't really care that much if the guys hurt each other not enough to risk personal injury to themselves.

              But the prison work-out yard fight scene really didn't look the same to me. It was a bunch of guys standing around in a circle, with some guards mixed in, while only 1 antagonist (Oliver) went at it. It would have been easy for 2 or 3 guards to surround him and use their equipment. Especially as he was preoccupied with standing over his victim, battering him with a 45 lb weight. I definitely wouldn't have expected 1 guard to take him on, but 2 or 3 of them could have come up behind him easy.

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm all in for an extended incarceration for Oliver and by the looks of it, he may be in almost up to the crossover.

                A lot of things were weighing on his mind re: whether to keep his head down or retaliate. Obviously Diggle and Felicity's visits and his concern for William. We can't forget that smaller inmate who begged for help and Oliver pulling what I'd call a "Pontius Pilate" and washing his hands of it, more than once. Not his problem, I get it, he didn't want to make waves.

                But it's evident all those times denying his true nature takes a toll, and the inmate (after getting a rogues gallery beating) calling him a coward stung him because there is truth in it, no matter how much his reasoning for sitting on his hands made sense to him. He has to survive in prison -- but he also has to live with himself and his conscience long after he gets out. This is what Diggle was alluding to, fearing his mind would break before his body does.

                Loved that his former foes tried to recruit him into their prison gang, part of me wanted him to say yes lol. I think it would make sense that he should have, if not membership in a cellblock crew, then a temporary alliance somehow. The shower throwdown showed how vulnerable he is. It's not Sons of Anarchy, but so far the prison situation looks promising. (The only thing missing would be inappropriate passes in the prison gym from guys called Big Bob calling him "Sugar" or "Sweetness" to turn Oliver's frazzled nerves to ice.)

                He must stay inside longer than Barry was at least.

                In the prison, we have to think of the guards as a "gang" too. Self-preservation is paramount, and many would rather let the inmates let out some aggression on each other instead of waiting for a riot to explode. Some are likely on the take too, with Diaz and others.

                Oliver can only do so much, with the whole block wanting to gut him, so it looks like he will now push back ... to a point. He's not fomenting open rebellion or plotting his escape yet, but he's not going to be passive either. I do think his yard fight earned him a spot in the hole. He can catch up with Bronze Tiger lol.

                I wish the Arrowverse wasn't wedded to this notion of real-time passing. Nothing wrong with a time jump. The main reason might be so that all the shows align in time for the crossover aka the time they all pretend it's a shared universe.

                Comment


                • #9
                  With Bronze Tiger showing up in this episode (and I believe it's his first appearance since season 2), it kind of cements how out of the loop Marc Guggenheim is these days.

                  Guggenheim controversially (and idiotically) had Bronze Tiger killed off in the Arrow comic that came out between seasons 2 and 3. A comic that always lines up with the show's storylines and vice versa. Beth Schwartz probably won't be any improvement on Mericle, but I love the fact that she overruled one of MG's writing decisions.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by President_Luthor
                    I
                    In the prison, we have to think of the guards as a "gang" too. Self-preservation is paramount, and many would rather let the inmates let out some aggression on each other instead of waiting for a riot to explode. Some are likely on the take too, with Diaz and others.
                    Aye. People questioning The guards' motives must always keep this in mind. Guards are just as involved if not more so in prison culture as any of the inmates, sometimes with gang memberships too.

                    Guards can be bought, bribed, and bullied just like any inmate. Now, which of the alliances each guard belongs to is another question entirely, but if I had to guess I'd say there's very few guards that are clean or are otherwise unspoken for by someone.

                    Although that said I'm surprised they decided to try to buy themselves into Oliver's favor at the end...are they trying to get into his good books because he's the green arrow? did he save their lives at some point and this is a personal debt thing? Or was Lyla watching Oliver's back with power from Argus?

                    I'm still assuming that when they decide to get Oliver out for the cross over event this year it'll be via a deal: Either Lyla will make a deal with the feds to let him out on Argus's behalf (perhaps a new suicide squad recruitment?) and then he'll be cut loose after their mission, or the FBI chick from last season will make a deal with Oliver for a mission she has for him (maybe said mission will be the real reasons he was chosen as her target and she made it seem so personal to her in the first place).

                    Also I'm not sure the fast forward scenes are necessary, but as I'm not watching this stuff beyond the prison episodes or cross over event it doesn't matter.

                    Also to who ever asked: I think William would be slightly older than 15 if this was only a ten year jump into the flash forward scenes lol. He's only supposed to be what, 13 or 14 already isn't he?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TyrantLord
                      Also to who ever asked: I think William would be slightly older than 15 if this was only a ten year jump into the flash forward scenes lol. He's only supposed to be what, 13 or 14 already isn't he?
                      Oops, my bad! I wasn't clear in my earlier comment/question. I was guessing that CurrentTime William was about 15. FutureTime William looked to me to be at least 25. So I was thinking maybe the flash forward is at least 10 years in the future, but possibly more.

                      Originally posted by TyrantLord
                      Although that said I'm surprised they decided to try to buy themselves into Oliver's favor at the end...are they trying to get into his good books because he's the green arrow? did he save their lives at some point and this is a personal debt thing? Or was Lyla watching Oliver's back with power from Argus?
                      Those are possibilities I hadn't considered, when I wondered why the guards would just stand around. I agree prison guards have their own culture, agendas, motives & factions. They play an important part in the complex politics of prison life, and I hope the writers won't neglect them going forward, treating them merely as convenient props for whatever needs to happen in a particular prison scene at any given moment. That was my concern when I saw them just standing around in the prison yard watching Oliver. Guess I'll find out in the coming episodes.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        They've since revealed that the flashforwards are 20 years into the future and William's supposed to be early 30s.

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                        • #13
                          Yeah, they've said it was around a 20-year jump. So that would make Roy middle-aged by then. I think William is at least 12 at this point. Not certain about this if it's canon, but the wikis say he was born in 2007. So 11-12 is probably in the ballpark, even though the actor looks like he could be 12-14. I think he was 11 by the time he was Prometheus' boat guest in Lian Yu.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Any thoughts on why Oliver is missing in the future?


                            My first thought was maybe Oliver went missing instead of Barry in that Crisis Event or some other happening in the future, due to the time meddling that Barry has done in the past and will do so again. I mean, this isn't a spoiler but Iris did mention on Flash how they've changed Newspaper headlines before and will do so again, if needed. So what if Barry and the gang time meddle again and then that changes the future to where Oliver disappears instead of Barry? I know the timelines don't match up, but it's just a thought.

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