#4.21 "One Bad Day"

[Aries83]

This was a really good episode.

Surprisingly, I did NOT see that ending coming, which was all the more shocking since I liked how Selina had Bruce's back in this episode (The kiss was also cute).

I liked how Oswald (and company) got the upperhand on Jeremiah—even though it didn't last long.

I didn't care for the Alfred torture scenes, so I was glad that plot ended the way it did.

The weakest plot, of course, was the Gordon/Lee/Nygma nonsense—which I don't feel like wasting time on.

The potential team-up between Valeska and al Ghul seems promising, but I am curious how the season will end next week since Jeremiah was so easily foiled in this episode.

Anyway, I thought it was pretty sold for a "penultimate" episode.

What did everybody else think?

[costas22]

I liked the episode quite a bit, but I think the main plot was kind of a waste. I mean, exactly because it's the penultimate episode, it's hard to believe that the threat against the city is neutralized. And the promo for the season finale alludes to some bombings taking place. So the whole "lets stop Jeremiah from detonating the bombs" was probably for nothing in the grand scheme of things. Although, to be fair, I did like the fact that Harvey won back the trust of his colleagues due to his heroics. That was a nice touch.

Jeremiah is a terrific villain. Cameron plays him in exactly the opposite way he plays Jerome: Cool, calm and collected. And one could argue that Jeremiah has turned out to be a bigger menace than his brother. And it's not just the bombs. The way he tortured Alfred and Bruce was sick. His plan may have been foiled for now, but it will be interesting to see what comes out of his rapport with Ra's (good to see him back).

Sean Pertwee was really scary when he was playing maniacal Alfred.

The cliffhanger was a real gut punch. Ok, obviously Selina won't die, but you feel terrible for Bruce because once again, things go bad for him before they get better. My guess is that the moment between Bruce and Selina was ruined for good. Even after she recovers, Bruce will probably keep his distance from now on. The whole thing, capped off with the "One Bad Day" reference was an homage to the Killing Joke, with Joker shooting Selina Kyle instead of Barbara Gordon. Makes me wonder if they will do some kind of paralysis storyline for Selina going forward...

The involvement of Penguin, Butch, Barbara and Tabby felt forced, to be honest. As if the writers wanted them to be part of the episode, even though they weren't actually going to do anything. Penguin, again, seems to be spinning his wheels at the moment. Butch is no longer Grundy and is there for the odd one liner. And Barbara is just waiting for Ra's to return. They didn't have to be in this episode, although I loved the way Jeremiah got the upper hand on them.

I don't want to call the Jim/Lee/Ed stuff a love triangle (yet) because there didn't seem to be a romantic vibe in the scenes between Jim and Lee. However, I hated the way Ed eavesdropped on their conversation and made that sad face when Jim left. It's soap opera melodrama at its finest and it does nothing for The Riddler. Granted, I want him to call out Lee for the way she's clearly using him, but I want him to do it because he sassed her out. Not because he's worried she might still have feelings for Jim. Ugh. The sooner this storyline is over and Ed can move onto something else, the better. Likewise for Jim. As for Lee, hopefully next week's episode is her last.

[AsteroidMike]

This episode may as well have just been named "The Killing Joke" because of all the references and nods to that story, right down to the episode title.

Pretty much everything in this episode was spot on IMO, the right amount of drama, fear, action and stakes for everyone, though I could predict that someone would stop all the bombs from leveling Gotham. A hell of a surprise twist would've been if they didn't stop any of them. I think the best part of that plot point was that Harvey was sent to disable one and he succeeded by way of good ol' fashioned "Eeny Meeny Minny Moe." I was live tweeting the episode too and asked about that and the Gotham Twitter page actually responded to me and asked me how else would I have done it. I was more in shock that they actually replied to me.

Regarding the Jim-Lee-Ed triangle, I know it's tiresome for some people but I did like how Jim seems to be over her and Ed was trying to brag. I especially took note of the part where Ed said Jim was "ten times the killer he was," which left me thinking about Ed's body count throughout the series.

The ending was an absolute shot out of left field with Selina getting shot right when Jeremiah pulls up randomly, so I guess she takes Barbara's place there since, well, it's another nod to The Killing Joke.

[Aries83]

I did like the fact that Harvey won back the trust of his colleagues due to his heroics.

Me too, although I felt Logue was kind of overacting at the beginning of the episode (trying to act so panicked that it wasn't convincing at all).

Sean Pertwee was really scary when he was playing maniacal Alfred.

I agree. The maiming part (where he carved the smile) was very disturbing to me...

The cliffhanger was a real gut punch. Ok, obviously Selina won't die, but you feel terrible for Bruce because once again, things go bad for him before they get better. . . . The whole thing, capped off with the "One Bad Day" reference was an homage to the Killing Joke, with Joker shooting Selina Kyle instead of Barbara Gordon. Makes me wonder if they will do some kind of paralysis storyline for Selina going forward...

That sounds kind of awful (for Selina), but I guess they've got to give her something to do.

On another note, I'm pretty sure it was Ra's who shot Selina and not Jeremiah? Did you notice how he just appeared out of thin air and shot her? It had to be al Ghul projecting as Jeremiah.

The involvement of Penguin, Butch, Barbara and Tabby felt forced, to be honest. . . . They didn't have to be in this episode

I agree. The argument that they've got too many characters (and not enough screen time to serve them) could be made.

I hated the way Ed eavesdropped on their conversation and made that sad face when Jim left. It's soap opera melodrama at its finest and it does nothing for The Riddler. . . . The sooner this storyline is over and Ed can move onto something else, the better. Likewise for Jim. As for Lee, hopefully next week's episode is her last.

I didn't think he was making a sad face. To me, it looked like, "You're-a-lyng-b****-and-I'm-gonna-kill-you!," face... I hope he does.

Jim asking/telling her to leave Gotham was SO repetitive, because he already did it like two seasons ago.

Another thing about Lee: I hate how she leans in and kisses Nygma EVERY time she tries to convince him to do her bidding. Really? The whole storyline is just STUPID!

A hell of a surprise twist would've been if they didn't stop any of them.

I kind of thought that's what would happen too. It would've really set the tone for the Season Finale a little better.

The ending was an absolute shot out of left field with Selina getting shot right when Jeremiah pulls up randomly, so I guess she takes Barbara's place there since, well, it's another nod to The Killing Joke.

The only thing I know about that storyline is that Barbara Gordon gets paralyzed. I'm not sure how I feel about them essentially/possibly giving the aftermath of that story to Selina—especially when Barbara Gordon doesn't even exist on the show yet. Then again, I'm not versed in many of the stories from the comics.

[costas22]

Hasn't been brought up yet, but the show remains in a state of limbo right now. FOX cancelled Lucifer last night and it's hard to predict what that might mean for Gotham. Theoretically, they cancelled a more successful show ratings wise, so Gotham's prospects might not look good. Unless they decided to persist with only one DC show and they went with Gotham.

I hope we get some news soon (at least let us know if the episode we'll watch next week is the series finale or not!). But it sucks that they are leaving it so late and the shows don't even have a chance for closure.

I agree. The maiming part (where he carved the smile) was very disturbing to me...

Same here! And I was glad it ended being up a halucination because while he was carving the smile I kept thinking "Alfred's face will look funny from now on".

That sounds kind of awful (for Selina), but I guess they've got to give her something to do.

Of course there's also a possibility that this is similar to Selina falling out the window and having cats resurrect her: It will only be an homage and nothing more. I certainly hope we don't get a paralysis storyline because you just know it will wrap up sloppily after a few episodes and Selina will be perfectly fine.

On another note, I'm pretty sure it was Ra's who shot Selina and not Jeremiah? Did you notice how he just appeared out of thin air and shot her? It had to be al Ghul projecting as Jeremiah.

That's an interesting observation and he really did appear out of nowhere. But right now I'd just chalk it down to Wayne Manor's security being even worse than the Luthor Mansion's. The reason for that is that in the promo images for next week's episode we see Jeremiah in jail all beaten up (from Alfred's punches) while Ra's is shown elsewhere. So it truly was Jeremiah who shot her and we are supposed to believe that he's just that good at being stealth.

I agree. The argument that they've got too many characters (and not enough screen time to serve them) could be made.

That's true. Especially if the actors' contracted number of episodes demanded that they appear in this episode. I just wish they found something better for them to do instead of yet another round of "Who's on whose side". It's really a drinking game at this point.

I didn't think he was making a sad face. To me, it looked like, "You're-a-lyng-b****-and-I'm-gonna-kill-you!," face... I hope he does.

Just watched the scene again. Damn, you're right. He looks pissed and his eye is twitching a bit. Definitely not good for Lee.

Jim asking/telling her to leave Gotham was SO repetitive, because he already did it like two seasons ago.

Oh, I think it's much more repetitive! Lee must have left Gotham in every season of the show until now. Another drinking game.

Another thing about Lee: I hate how she leans in and kisses Nygma EVERY time she tries to convince him to do her bidding. Really? The whole storyline is just STUPID!

The kissing thing is probably why Ed is angry by the end of the episode. He suspects Lee is just be flirting with him to get what she wants and the scene with Jim confirmed his suspicions.

[Aries83]

the show remains in a state of limbo right now. FOX cancelled Lucifer last night and it's hard to predict what that might mean for Gotham. Theoretically, they cancelled a more successful show ratings wise, so Gotham's prospects might not look good. Unless they decided to persist with only one DC show and they went with Gotham.

I hope we get some news soon (at least let us know if the episode we'll watch next week is the series finale or not!). But it sucks that they are leaving it so late and the shows don't even have a chance for closure.

I saw that [Lucifer was cancelled) yesterday. Lethal Weapon is also facing cancellation, too (Plus, one of the leads was/is rumored to have been fired).

Fox also cancelled Brooklyn Nine Nine (which was saved by NBC) and Last Man On Earth.

The fact that they cut so much of their programming already, to me, is a good sign for Gotham. They already have less to air, which could mean the show gets renewed because they have nothing else to air in the current time slot. Plus, a lot more people are familiar with Batman than they are with the comic Lucifer was based on so even if the ratings aren't great, they know they have so many viewers watching anyway.

I think it will be renewed, although I wouldn't be surprised if Season 5 was the last. Most shows don't even make it to Season 6 these days.

there's also a possibility that this is similar to Selina falling out the window and having cats resurrect her: It will only be an homage and nothing more. I certainly hope we don't get a paralysis storyline because you just know it will wrap up sloppily after a few episodes and Selina will be perfectly fine.

Which would make the nod to that storyline from the comics pointless.

That's an interesting observation and he really did appear out of nowhere. But right now I'd just chalk it down to Wayne Manor's security being even worse than the Luthor Mansion's.

I'm sure it could go either way. It's not a stretch that Jeremiah wouldn't know where Bruce lived since he became obsessed with him so fast. I guess we'll have to wait and see what they establish with that.

I just wish they found something better for them to do instead of yet another round of "Who's on whose side". It's really a drinking game at this point.

So true. Honestly, what they need to do is get rid of some characters or do a HUGE time jump. The season has been an improvement over last, but it's felt so stagnant for the last few episodes.

Just watched the scene again. Damn, you're right. He looks pissed and his eye is twitching a bit. Definitely not good for Lee.

Goodbye, Lee, don't let the door hit in the ass on your way out! I hate to say it because Morena Baccarin is actually a really good actress, but the writing for her character has been TERRIBLE!

The kissing thing is probably why Ed is angry by the end of the episode. He suspects Lee is just be flirting with him to get what she wants and the scene with Jim confirmed his suspicions.

I don't even know why he had to witness them together to find that out when he pretty much told her an episode ago that he knew that's what she was doing...

[costas22]

I saw that [Lucifer was cancelled) yesterday. Lethal Weapon is also facing cancellation, too (Plus, one of the leads was/is rumored to have been fired).

Fox also cancelled Brooklyn Nine Nine (which was saved by NBC) and Last Man On Earth.

The fact that they cut so much of their programming already, to me, is a good sign for Gotham. They already have less to air, which could mean the show gets renewed because they have nothing else to air in the current time slot. Plus, a lot more people are familiar with Batman than they are with the comic Lucifer was based on so even if the ratings aren't great, they know they have so many viewers watching anyway.

I think it will be renewed, although I wouldn't be surprised if Season 5 was the last. Most shows don't even make it to Season 6 these days.

Unless they are on the CW. The shows over there are neverending!

Interesting you brought up Lethal Weapon because according to a report I read, its fate is tied to Gotham's. If WB finds a new lead actor by next week, FOX will renew Lethal Weapon and cancel Gotham. If they are unable to, then Lethal Weapon will get cancelled and Gotham will get the green light for another season. It's a very strange way for a network to organize its tv schedule, but nothing surprises me with FOX anymore. A link to the article:

http://comicbook.com/dc/2018/05/12/gotham-season-five-renewal-lethal-weapon/

I So true. Honestly, what they need to do is get rid of some characters or do a HUGE time jump. The season has been an improvement over last, but it's felt so stagnant for the last few episodes.

Amen. If the show gets a 5th season, it will need a revamp. Some regular characters (like Butch, Lee, Barbara and Tabby) should become recurring at best. It's obvious they don't know what to do with them anymore. I am also all for the time jump because the show clearly won't be around until David Mazouz is old enough to play Bruce Wayne as he officially becomes the Batman.

Goodbye, Lee, don't let the door hit in the ass on your way out! I hate to say it because Morena Baccarin is actually a really good actress, but the writing for her character has been TERRIBLE!

She's talented, no doubt. I enjoyed her on Deadpool and she was ok as Lee Thompkins at the start of Gotham. She was actually much more liked than Barbara at the time (funny how things have shifted since then). I would love to see her in another role that does her acting justice.

[Aries83]

Interesting you brought up Lethal Weapon because according to a report I read, its fate is tied to Gotham's. If WB finds a new lead actor by next week, FOX will renew Lethal Weapon and cancel Gotham. If they are unable to, then Lethal Weapon will get cancelled and Gotham will get the green light for another season. It's a very strange way for a network to organize its tv schedule, but nothing surprises me with FOX anymore. A link to the article:

http://comicbook.com/dc/2018/05/12/g...lethal-weapon/

I actually read this earlier after I replied to you.

I don't understand why a renewal depends on another show at all—unless LW is cheaper to produce every week which means the network saves money in the long run if they keep it instead of Gotham?

Then again, Damon Wayans—in my opinion—probably costs more to keep per season than Ben McKenzie. So, I would think keeping Gotham would be cheaper for the network. Who knows.

I read some articles about why the actor was fired a couple of weeks ago and the consensus among fans of the show is that they'd rather the network cancel it than do a recast.

I never saw the appeal of the show, honestly, but it will probably fail even if they found somebody. I've also read that every actor they've approached with the role has turned it down.

If the show gets a 5th season, it will need a revamp. Some regular characters (like Butch, Lee, Barbara and Tabby) should become recurring at best. It's obvious they don't know what to do with them anymore. I am also all for the time jump because the show clearly won't be around until David Mazouz is old enough to play Bruce Wayne as he officially becomes the Batman.

He has done a GREAT job as BW, but if they want us to keep watching, they really need to get him closer to where he needs to be. Anything less than that and they're just wasting time (like they're wasting with Oswald and the others).

She was actually much more liked than Barbara at the time (funny how things have shifted since then).

I agree. Thompkins is dead weight.

[Haggard01]

He has done a GREAT job as BW, but if they want us to keep watching, they really need to get him closer to where he needs to be. Anything less than that and they're just wasting time (like they're wasting with Oswald and the others).


I agree. Thompkins is dead weight.

Yeah Bruce right now, despite David's amazing job playing him is one of my biggest issues for how he is not moving forward.

I figured for 3x23 Bruce put on the mask and a thrown together suit was surprising but I was for sure "Ok now we are getting somewhere" then in season 4 by the time this season is out all they've done is seemingly back track. With making Bruce seem really dumb with running around confronting Jerome, going to question that one guy at the school and such as himself with no mask at all.

Frankly I think they quickly put Bruce into a mask in 3x23 since they filmed that episode incase they got canceled but did their utter best to back track from that throughout season 4. Really disappointing.

And the argument of well "Bruce is not an adult and to the rest of he's to young to become Batman yet" just doesn't fly. Especially anymore when Bruce is either 17 or 18 depending on how many candles on that cake from season 4. I counted 18 so I'm going with that.

Physically David looks like an adult and can easily step up into a vigilante role or well a role to get him closer to who he one day will become.

Frankly at this age of Bruce being 18 the "he's to young" certainly does not work when you have Robin or Batgirl running around younger then that. And I'll bet the people saying he's to young don't have a problem with Robin or Batgirl being younger then Bruce is currently and out on the field.

Which really Gotham is it's own thing, but it is supposed to be telling the story of Bruce going to be Batman and Gordon as Commissioner. For Gordon right now he's relatively fine, Bruce though needs to get closer to where he should be.

I will say for Bruce this year we were told before the season and during the early part of it for alot of Bruce as a vigilante story line and being more involved with trying to stop Penguin and such, but I don't think we've gotten any of what they said we were going to.

Sometimes I wonder if they keep Bruce around as viewer bait and nothing more.

Moving on, yeah I agree with you and Costa on Lee needing to go. Really I wished she stayed gone following 3x22, but sadly she did not.

[Aurora Moon]

I agree, Haggard. They seem to think that becoming Batman means the end of the story, but it doesn't have to be that way. Heck, a story about a newbie batman starting out would be really interesting. Heck, seeing Selina slowly evolve into the Cat woman is really interesting too.

But, maybe they're going to build up to it and why the Joker seems so fixated on Batman? Because the Joker thinks that Batman is the real self behind Bruce Wayne's facade, and that he helped bring it out of him. And that they're just playing a game together all this time? Might be a good way to tie itself into the batman mythos.

[Haggard01]

I agree, Haggard. They seem to think that becoming Batman means the end of the story, but it doesn't have to be that way. Heck, a story about a newbie batman starting out would be really interesting. Heck, seeing Selina slowly evolve into the Cat woman is really interesting too.

But, maybe they're going to build up to it and why the Joker seems so fixated on Batman? Because the Joker thinks that Batman is the real self behind Bruce Wayne's facade, and that he helped bring it out of him. And that they're just playing a game together all this time? Might be a good way to tie itself into the batman mythos.

Ah glad you agree.

That would be neat to see for a rookie Bruce starting out and growing into Batman on the streets of Gotham without all the worldly training he has would be neat to see. Really one of the things I do like about Gotham is thus far they really are not going for the whole Bruce travels the world. Yep for Selina into Catwoman.

That is an interesting theory for the Batman and Joker relationship. Of how Jeremiah/Joker things he helped bring out the darkness aka the darkness being Batman from Bruce and that is darkness of Batman is what he sees as his best friend.

[costas22]

Said this elsewhere, but there may be more restrictions that we are not aware of in regards to some iconic Batman mythos characters. Cameron Monaghan alluded to the Joker's recently. And I think the same could apply to Bruce. Gotham may not even be allowed to use the Batman moniker or to dress up Bruce in the Batman suit. Lest we forget that the series' original premise was the story of a young James Gordon and Bruce's role began to grow when the showrunners realized the audience's interest in his story.

Hopefully these restrictions will get lifted a bit ahead of Season 5, but I still don't expect to see Batman or even newbie Batman on the show.

I never saw the appeal of the show, honestly, but it will probably fail even if they found somebody. I've also read that every actor they've approached with the role has turned it down.

Αmazingly, they managed to cast Sean William Scott for the part. Which is quite the big deal for a network show. For whatever reason, FOX was more determined to keep this show than Lucifer...

Oh well. Thankfully Gotham still managed to survive. Warner Brothers probably fought hard to get that final season.

[AsteroidMike]

Found out yesterday the show is greenlit for another season in the fall but that's also gonna be the last season. Not entirely sure if that was the producer's plan all along or if it was FOX screwing around yet again.