Ben Percy and Juan Ferreyra about the Rebirth comics versus the TV adaptation...

[evaba]

Ben Percy and Juan Perreyra don't mince words about the comic book version of Green Arrow versus the television version:



It is abundantly clear that neither DC comics nor the actual writers are interested in following "Arrow" in their comics, except maybe incorporating some elements, like Diggle appearing in the comics. However, on the whole the writers/illustrators seem more interested in giving their own twist to the comic book GA mythos than incorporating characters and storylines from the TV version. And I find it a bit strange that those fans who never cease to emphasize that the TV show is a different thing from the comics (and who generally seem to treat both the comics and comic book fans with derision) cannot stop campaigning for the inclusion of OCs like Felicity in the DC comics (e.g. Felicity/Olicity Superfan Smoak&Arrow). Besides, Felicity already had her chance in the Kresiberg/Ben "Olicity" Sokolowski comic book run, which didn't sell very well and was swiftly discontinued. So, it's not that Felicity's presence made the comics sell in massive numbers. Anyway, given the very positive reception that the Percy/Ferreyra GA Rebirth has received by the comic book community, I think they're definitely on the right track.

P.S. Loved this reply from Juan Ferreyra, to someone who mentioned Felicity:

I don't know what are you talking about. I haven't seen the show. Felicity wasn't a J.J. Abrams show?

[BkWurm1]

Besides, Felicity already had her chance in the Kresiberg/Ben "Olicity" Sokolowski comic book run, which didn't sell very well and was swiftly discontinued. So, it's not that Felicity's presence made the comics sell in massive numbers.

I'm fine with Arrow being just Arrow and not spilling more over into the comics but I really wish that when they did introduce Felicity to the comics that they hadn't sold her inclusion as being an assassin given the assignment to kill Oliver/The Green Arrow. I know the initial description turned me off the whole project. Felicity being a hired killer meant she wasn't Felicity. I heard later that that greatly mischaracterized her character, but it was too late, they'd already handed the series off again. Word had just started going around that it was worth reading (even if Kriesberg was a hack writer), but nope, missed chance.

I'm still going to mock that they replaced it with Oliver turning into a werewolf, lol.

[costas22]

Oh boy. I suspect the usual suspects ganged up on Benjamin Percy. Again...

[nate-dog1701d]

This is interesting. I guess this implies the similarities established were solely due to the whims of the writers? I didn't read the pre-Lemire stuff, but there was already at least one computer hacker on the team. I don't remember if Fyff came before or during Lemire. Lemire introduced Diggle, a sister/crimefighting partner, and a shady side of Robert Queen. Moira was also alive when Oliver returned from the island. Kreisberg poorly introduced Felicity and tried to establish the Oliver/Diggle/Felicity threesome. I certainly would have expected DC to have been behind at least some of those changes. Heck, I think Supergirl even works with the DEO now.

[Amarice]

Actually there is a page they could take from the tv show. Archery. Because at this point is beyond my reasoning why the talented artist that work on the comics in Benjamin Percy's run can't use some reference. It's on of the reasons why Rebrith run, while it's awesome, won't be as awesome as "The Longbow Hunters" for me, which I consider a masterpiece.

Also I don't understand why they mock some elements from tv show then (like Wild Dog). Not to mention that Oliver didn't have a sister before they've introduced Thea in the tv show (although Emiko has different origin). So those are not two completely separate things any more.

An island also wasn't that important in the comic up to "Year One". Oliver's parents were killed on safari - what is horrible use of a trope A Superhero with Dead Parents. After the show Moira appeared in short scenes in New 52 comics - her meeting with Oliver was particularly moving - link. I think I don't need to say which option I like more (although I didn't manage to get through all of New 52 GA run).

What I'm trying to say is that in perfect world the comic and the tv show could inspire one another. The comic canon is still in fluid. There is no use for some characters since they're easily replaceable (Henry is the team's hacker in Rebirth), but certainly there is some elements the comics could borrow from the tv show. Also, if I recall correctly Oliver at one point had a bow resembling The Original Recurve from season 1 (pity that they showed how he crafts the bow - from freshly cut tree - srsly x_x).

[evaba]

This is interesting. I guess this implies the similarities established were solely due to the whims of the writers? I didn't read the pre-Lemire stuff, but there was already at least one computer hacker on the team. I don't remember if Fyff came before or during Lemire. Lemire introduced Diggle, a sister/crimefighting partner, and a shady side of Robert Queen. Moira was also alive when Oliver returned from the island. Kreisberg poorly introduced Felicity and tried to establish the Oliver/Diggle/Felicity threesome. I certainly would have expected DC to have been behind at least some of those changes. Heck, I think Supergirl even works with the DEO now.

I have the feeling that Percy wanted to put his own stamp on the GA comic book mythos, and maybe that's why he only retained some elements from the show, e.g. Diggle. As far as I know comic book readers in general are very happy with the direction of the current comics, and have no desire to see Felicity or other (more or less) original characters from the TV show introduced into the Rebirth comics. When it comes to already existing DC characters, I presume that there will be some overlap. The biggest difference between Rebirth and "Arrow" is of course that Black Canary and Green Arrow are a couple in the comics.

[nate-dog1701d]

Has Diggle been part of Rebirth? I just finished New 52 GA, and Percy's run didn't mention him or Felicity once. I wasn't upset about it because I didn't want the comic to become Oliver/Diggle/Felicity, but it was a rather jarring transition from Kreisberg to Percy. The very end of Kreisberg's last issue had Felicity joining the team full-time with Diggle right there, and then they were never even mentioned as Fyff became the resident hacker again. Based on that, I would assume Diggle hasn't even appeared in Rebirth, much less Felicity.

[Halberdier17]

I'm not sure if Diggle is in it.

I only read to of the Jeff Lemire run, Vol 4: The Kill Machine and Vol 5: The Outsiders War.

Diggle was introduced in the Outsiders War.

But when Jeff Lemire was on the book the tech support on "Team Arrow" was Naomi Singh. They also had Jax as a the Weapons designer for "Team Arrow"

[Amarice]

Has Diggle been part of Rebirth? I just finished New 52 GA, and Percy's run didn't mention him or Felicity once. I wasn't upset about it because I didn't want the comic to become Oliver/Diggle/Felicity, but it was a rather jarring transition from Kreisberg to Percy. The very end of Kreisberg's last issue had Felicity joining the team full-time with Diggle right there, and then they were never even mentioned as Fyff became the resident hacker again. Based on that, I would assume Diggle hasn't even appeared in Rebirth, much less Felicity.

Dig appears in Rebirth #2, and they meet with Ollie in #3 if I remember correctly. It's mentioned that he and Ollie fell out over something (probably it happened in Lemire's run, not sure).

Isn't Rebirth another reboot of the universum, just like New 52? That lack of continuity is kind of annoying, but some stories (like introducing Roy, Ollie's and Dinah's meeting) look more like retelling then anything else.

I flipped through Kreisberg's run and didn't read it actually except for the last couple of issues (just to check where Batman and Cupid appear on the scene as a support for Ollie ;p ).

While Rebirth may not take direct inspiration from the tv show some things, like Dinah saying "You've mistaken me of being a victim", Wild Dog logo and mask given to a bunch of thugs, the Recurve Bow from S1, an episode on the island, Dig being a part of the team, Ollie's and Emiko's relationship, public enemy storyline bring direct and indirect assocations (in the last case - I guess it's a pure coincidence, after A Hero Turned Public Enemy is quite a popular trope).

[Halberdier17]

Rebirth isn't a Reboot, it never was.

Rebirth is actually saying that the Post-Crisis (New Earth) and Post-Flashpoint (Earth Prime) are the same continuity but New 52 has 10 years missing from everybody.

So it is merging both continuities.

[Amarice]

Rebirth isn't a Reboot, it never was.

Rebirth is actually saying that the Post-Crisis (New Earth) and Post-Flashpoint (Earth Prime) are the same continuity but New 52 has 10 years missing from everybody.

So it is merging both continuities.

Thanks for the explanation. Those Earths, continuties Post and Pre-Crisis universes are confusing, especially if you don't follow those comics too closely...

[Halberdier17]

Thanks for the explanation. Those Earths, continuties Post and Pre-Crisis universes are confusing, especially if you don't follow those comics too closely...

New Earth is everything from Crisis on Infinite Earths in 1985/1986 through Flashpoint in 2011.

Earth Prime is everything in the continuity created after Barry Allen stopped himself from saving his mother in the end of Flashpoint.

[evaba]

Oh boy. I suspect the usual suspects ganged up on Benjamin Percy. Again...

Seems like some folks are still disappointed/angry that Felicity Smoak is not in the comics, and thus use the inclusion of Diggle as an argument that Percy is "lying" about not being influenced by the television version:

https://twitter.com/Benjamin_Percy/status/876531501550141442

I suspect that this is not the only rude tweet he's received, otherwise he might not have been so testy. Anyway, I cannot understand why some members of the Felicity/Olicity fandom can't be satisfied with their heroine's impact on the TV series and just leave the comic book alone (especially since they often speak about comic books and CB readers with such disdain!). I mean, Felicity is the Alpha female on "Arrow": every female contender to her status as Main Love Interest has been eliminated and she gets more screen time/stories/time with Oliver than any other female character, while Dinah and Thea are lingering in the background.

Their insistence that Felicity should be included in the comics is especially odd since many Felicity/Olicity fans never cease to point out that the TV adaptation and the comics are two different things and that Guggenheim/Mericle are "writing their own story" (and hence that those fans who expected something different from a GA adaptation than what they've been getting for three years now should stop complaining). Apparently Ben Percy is not allowed to "write his own story" if this story doesn't include their unmasked heroine and the Allmighty OTA.....I personally think "the usual suspects" should be content and grateful with the preferential treatment Felicity is getting from the "Arrow" TPTB, especially in view of the rather massive anti-Felicity backlash after season four. Felicity Smoak may be an important superheroine in their world, but that doesn't mean that she's important to comic book readers, or to those who write the GA comics.

[Amarice]

^ I'm a tad confused. Doesn't the same folks argue that "the show is not the comic" and also are not able to comprehend what an adaptation actually is?

Actually "Arrow" comic book anthology had a few stories with Felicity, and there were quite enjoyable, but surprise, surprise, there was no Olicity (as it was S1 setting) so I suppose they aren't interesting for shippers, because how Felicity can exist without Olicity?

[Aurora Moon]

^^^ replying to the two posts above me.

It sounds like some Arrow fans wants their cake and to eat it too. They can't go on and on about how the comic and the TV show is two different things, and then ***** about how the comics aren't following the same direction the TV show is.

I actually agree that comics and TV shows should be separate things. They're adaptations, and will occasionally take some inspiration from each other. But ultimately they have separate canon story-lines and characters that has nothing to do with each other.
I actually see the Arrow characters as completely different characters from the ones in the comics. They may share the same names, but the similarities end there.

Amarice brings up a interesting point about the olicity shippers. Can they truly be called true fans of Felicity if they can't even like her on her own without being with a man at all?
It's like Felicity can't even stand on her own as a character without being propped up by romantic sub-plots, according to them. There's something really problematic about that.