Loved It? Hated It? What did you think of "Pretty Hate Machine?"

[Aries83]

What did you think?

Edit: I gave it an 8, mainly because it felt a little busy in some spots.

Seeing the bomb detonate was satisfying, though.

What little banter Penguin and Edward had was good, as was the unforgettable reappearance of Maria Mercedes "Fish" Mooney!

She didn't just enter the room, she commanded it, and I LOVED it! I can't wait to see the part she plays in the finale (and what it means for Penguin).

I have to give Jada Pinkett-Smith props for continuing with the role, too. I just LOVE this character! The badass b**** has returned. Step aside, Barbara...

The only thing I didn't like, as usual, was Lee's STINK BOMB storyline. She's officially Barbara 2.0, which isn't a good thing. When she said, "I knew you'd come," with her beady eyes, I just laughed because it was so awful.

Anyway, it was pretty good. I hope the finale will be worth it!

What did everybody else think?

[AsteroidMike]

Regarding Lee, I said last week that it was stupid to make her take the virus as part of her story because it felt like someone might not like her on the writing staff. As of this episode, I'm actually kinda glad she's doing something other than just one scene of her ranting at Jim for Mario's death and not appearing any other time in the episode.

The Bruce-Alfred-Shaman scenes were very well done, and it's pretty sad to see Bruce basically turn his back on Alfred. The fact that the bomb actually went off as planned was a stunning scene. And it also was almost the same as the climax to "Batman Begins" (bad guys release a substance into Gotham to watch the city destroy itself).

Also, props to none other than Fish Mooney for showing up at just the right time and reminding everyone who and what she is. The stunned silence said it all.

[costas22]

They raised the stakes quite a bit in the end by having both Bruce and Jim in compromised situations. Makes you wonder how they will be able to snap out of them next week. I hope it's not through power of will or some kind of convenient excuse like that.

The Lee stuff is what it is. I guess it was naive of us to think that they would write her out after the character grew stale and tiresome. Now granted, they did try something different with her this week (and credit to Morena for playing the bad girl so convincingly), but, once again, they made it all about her and Jim. Don't know if the writers love the pairing because Ben and Morena are a real life couple, but they really need to get over it and explore other storylines for both characters. As far as Jim goes, on one hand I am disappointed he succumbed and took the virus but on the other hand, I appreciate the fact that the show makes him look flawed. Ultimately, Jim Gordon should be a vulnerable character when Batman enters his life in the future.

The storyline involving Bruce, Shaman and the virus was more interesting this week and it finally paved the way for Ra's Al Ghul's entrance. Alfred killing Ra's henchman probably won't bode well for him!

The Nygma/Penguin arc kind of took a dive this week for 2 reasons: (a) The absence of Penguin's army (why even tease this if the actors are only going to appear in 1 episode?) and (b) Fish's return. I don't hate Fish per se, but imo she wasn't needed in this storyline and it took the focus off Ed and Oswald. When a character only pops up at the end of the season, it's hard to get invested in her.

[AsteroidMike]

Can't help but like the fact that the show took a risk with Jim actually taking the virus, I was thinking Harvey was gonna get to him in time but that was a long shot. I just wanna see what they do with an infected Jim for the season finale because it's definitely a new avenue for the show. I feel like they'll "cure" him and Lee eventually, however.

[Aries83]

it's pretty sad to see Bruce basically turn his back on Alfred.

I agree. I felt so bad for Alfred.

props to none other than Fish Mooney for showing up at just the right time and reminding everyone who and what she is. The stunned silence said it all.

YES! I'm not sure what's in store for her, but I really hope they end the feud between her and Penguin once and for all. It would be a mistake not to. Besides, it looked like she might have a job within The League of Shadows (since she had her own henchmen).

I guess it was naive of us to think that they would write her out after the character grew stale and tiresome. Now granted, they did try something different with her this week (and credit to Morena for playing the bad girl so convincingly), but, once again, they made it all about her and Jim. Don't know if the writers love the pairing because Ben and Morena are a real life couple, but they really need to get over it and explore other storylines for both characters.

I agree. Baccarin did a good job with what she was given. I just feel like we've already seen Barbara go down the same rabbit hole. It looked like she enjoyed playing the part...

I am disappointed he succumbed and took the virus but on the other hand, I appreciate the fact that the show makes him look flawed.

I liked the fact that he was still trying to disarm the bomb even though he was infected. I have a feeling Hugo Strange will cure him (and Lee) to get out of jail time.

The Nygma/Penguin arc kind of took a dive this week for 2 reasons: (a) The absence of Penguin's army (why even tease this if the actors are only going to appear in 1 episode?) and (b) Fish's return. I don't hate Fish per se, but imo she wasn't needed in this storyline and it took the focus off Ed and Oswald. When a character only pops up at the end of the season, it's hard to get invested in her.

Yeah, I was hoping for the start of their "battle," but seeing Fish again made up for it. I'm still wondering if she has powers (since they didn't address that).

On another note, I was happy to see a more serious side of Barbara this week. The bloom is definitely off the rose with Tabatha... It was only a matter of time, though.

[TyrantLord]

Can't help but like the fact that the show took a risk with Jim actually taking the virus, I was thinking Harvey was gonna get to him in time but that was a long shot. I just wanna see what they do with an infected Jim for the season finale because it's definitely a new avenue for the show. I feel like they'll "cure" him and Lee eventually, however.

Yep. They'll probably be cured by end of next episode or season finisher. Most likely The Court had Strange whip up an cure secretly as a precaution and Fox will most likely end up mass engineering the cure for the public.

I called the League being the true puppet masters behind this season from day 1. All of the methods from the bad guys screamed Ra's and the League of Assassins. Although I was mistaken about Shaman being Ra's, I had everything else right.

[costas22]

I agree. Baccarin did a good job with what she was given. I just feel like we've already seen Barbara go down the same rabbit hole. It looked like she enjoyed playing the part...

Yeah, she looked like she did! I imagine playing regular Lee Thompkins must a be a real drag for her.

I think her situation, as opposed to Barbara's, is temporary. Especially now that Jim is infected as well. Next week both of them will get cured and get back together again.

I liked the fact that he was still trying to disarm the bomb even though he was infected. I have a feeling Hugo Strange will cure him (and Lee) to get out of jail time.

Sounds plausible. He engineered the virus, so he would have the cure. Although I'm a little bit confused as to who's side Strange is on these days.

Yeah, I was hoping for the start of their "battle," but seeing Fish again made up for it. I'm still wondering if she has powers (since they didn't address that).

On another note, I was happy to see a more serious side of Barbara this week. The bloom is definitely off the rose with Tabatha... It was only a matter of time, though.

Yeah, I was also wondering if she's still cattleFish Mooney.

Agreed on Barbara. To be honest, I wish they'd have her go back to being civilian Barbara without the baggage she had in season 1. The psycho gimmick has worked for a while, but there's nowhere else she can go. The show misses characters who aren't over the top. Like Vale was earlier this season.

[Aurora Moon]

I thought that Lee Thompkins was over the top here with her Gothic makeup and clothes. Honestly they should had just let her look normal but have her behavior be strange. I feel that would had been far more jarring that way.... instead of instantly letting us know that she was exploring her dark side by wearing dark, spooky colors. To me this part feels like a fanfic written by a teenage child who wanted to know that their character had turned into a badass by having their character undergo a dark, gritty wardrobe change. look at how dark and twisted she is now, by having her dress up like this, omg~!!!!!!!11111111!!!!!!!!111111

Alfred was the best part of this ep, honestly. The way he punched out Hugo strange and then called him a Slag was great.

Not a fan of the virus storyline, to be honest. I was far more interested in the feud between Penguin and the Riddler. How about that Fish Mooney, huh?

[Aries83]

I imagine playing regular Lee Thompkins must a be a real drag for her.

Next week both of them will get cured and get back together again.

Yeah, probably...

Yeah, I was also wondering if she's still cattleFish Mooney.

I'll take her any way I can get her. She's really grown on me. I'm ok with her popping in a couple times a season—if that's what it takes to keep Jada involved (I got the sense that she didn't like the long hours during Season 1).

Agreed on Barbara. To be honest, I wish they'd have her go back to being civilian Barbara without the baggage she had in season 1. The psycho gimmick has worked for a while, but there's nowhere else she can go.

I agree. I'd be ok with her staying in the crime world, IF she was as serious as she was in this episode. Her behavior in the episode where she tortured the guy with the hook (and ordered people around) was just not believable AT ALL...

How about that Fish Mooney, huh?

Yeah! Fish FTW!

[Aurora Moon]

I just had a weird thought. Wouldn't it be bizarre if the virus affected Barbara differently than it did others, and Barbara ended up becoming more sane, etc? It would be like she became so insane that her mind just kind of wrapped itself around back to being sane.

Then when Jim Gordon gets cured of the virus or whatever, He ends up being back together with Barbara even after all the **** she pulls. And that's how their child Barbara Gordon came to be. :P

[Aries83]

I just had a weird thought. Wouldn't it be bizarre if the virus affected Barbara differently than it did others, and Barbara ended up becoming more sane, etc? It would be like she became so insane that her mind just kind of wrapped itself around back to being sane.

Actually, that thought crossed my mind (about Lee) when I saw Hugo Strange watching her in the station.

I suppose it could happen to Barbara, but I was thinking maybe Lee would "bond" with the virus in a different way that others in Gotham didn't—on the contingency that she would become a villain who could use the power to her advantage. Sort of like Alice from the RE franchise.

[nate-dog1701d]

Just caught up with the show. Lee in this episode reminded me of bad Lana, which, though perhaps visually appealing, wasn't a particularly good thing. If there's one thing on this show that simply doesn't work, it's Lee and everything related to her. There are obviously benefits to being a series regular and working with your spouse/significant other/whatever-they-are-I-don't-care, but I feel sorry for Morena as an actress. I agree with costas22 that playing regular Lee must be a real drag.

I really like Nygma these days. He's come a long way from his boring days at the GCPD. I like Penguin less than I used to, but his feud with Riddler is fun. Even Barbara is fun, but I still find her and her gang kind of pointless. Ivy continues to be a series of very strange creative decisions, but I think the actress does a good job.

I can't say I fault Jim for taking the virus. The chances of developing a cure seem pretty high, especially with Strange around, so it doesn't seem worth dying for. Besides, he had noble intent in wanting to help with the bomb.

I'm interested to see what happens with Bruce. I remember reading that Ra's would appear, but I had forgotten until the old man mentioned working for someone else. Bruce seems a little young to meet Ra's, but that's the problem with this show conceptually. By the time he becomes Batman, all of these wacky villains will have been around for a decade.

[TyrantLord]

Just caught up with the show. Lee in this episode reminded me of bad Lana, which, though perhaps visually appealing, wasn't a particularly good thing. If there's one thing on this show that simply doesn't work, it's Lee and everything related to her. There are obviously benefits to being a series regular and working with your spouse/significant other/whatever-they-are-I-don't-care, but I feel sorry for Morena as an actress. I agree with costas22 that playing regular Lee must be a real drag.

I really like Nygma these days. He's come a long way from his boring days at the GCPD. I like Penguin less than I used to, but his feud with Riddler is fun. Even Barbara is fun, but I still find her and her gang kind of pointless. Ivy continues to be a series of very strange creative decisions, but I think the actress does a good job.

I can't say I fault Jim for taking the virus. The chances of developing a cure seem pretty high, especially with Strange around, so it doesn't seem worth dying for. Besides, he had noble intent in wanting to help with the bomb.

I'm interested to see what happens with Bruce. I remember reading that Ra's would appear, but I had forgotten until the old man mentioned working for someone else. Bruce seems a little young to meet Ra's, but that's the problem with this show conceptually. By the time he becomes Batman, all of these wacky villains will have been around for a decade.

That was supposed to be the point, I think. Usually when it comes to the more colorful, supervillainy aspects of gotham, the Bat is USUALLY responsible for creating the problems himself one way or another. I think this show wanted it to be reversed so that everything superviilain/fantastical ALREADY was established and that THEY essentially created the Batman this time around...basically the old switch-a-roo as far as origins on the whole chicken/egg thing. Instead of batman being balmed for everything gone wrong in gotham, this time everything gone wrong in gotham will be blamed for creating batman.

I mean any bat fan worth his/her salt knows that 99% of supervillains from gotham didn't start until AFTER Bruce wears the mask, so why this show felt it had to the reverse is way beyond me. Also, just because Bruce meets up with Ra's now-ish, doesn't mean he'll actually start his LOA training yet. He may end up snapping out of his hypnotic state well before he receives the training so he can resist Ra's and his methods for a few years so he can grow up before starting his ultimate destiny, that way the show can drag on for a few more seasons before Bruce puts on the Bat cowl lol.