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What did you think of "Who We are" & "All Along the Watchtower"?

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  • What did you think of "Who We are" & "All Along the Watchtower"?

    First up, 12.22.

    So, Walt and Roy in the Then. I knew that meant we’d see them again. And sure enough…though I am shocked that Dean forgave them so easily!

    Mary killing another hunter . I felt quite a pang of fear when I saw Jody’s name on that list. After they just killed off Eileen, I panicked a bit. Was very pleased that Jody made it.

    Needing Toni to undue Mary’s brainwashing, because who else didn’t buy the whole ‘it’s permanent thing’? *raises hand*

    The ritual to get out. I’m glad that they tried magic but Toni not realizing until after they had tried it was a bit silly.

    Dean wanting to tunnel through (the Shawshank reference! LOL), then the talk about how they envisioned the end. “Go out like Butch and Sundance. In a Blaze of Glory.” Both J’s have stated that that is how they see the show ending, so that a nice reference. And anyone else half expect the boys to start singing again?

    Dean finally gets to use the rocket launcher! Even with a McClane reference. When Dean disappeared, I did think—for a moment—that Cas had shown up and rescued him. Nope.

    Calling Garth and Jody and Alex return (no Claire?).

    Sam’s speech about hunting. Then Dean doesn’t go, he sends Sam to lead the fight while he attempts to save Mary.

    Jody and Alex’s “kick it in the ass” moment. Awww, Kim Manners reference FTW!

    We get a hug (without anyone dying!) and even a return of “B****.” “Jerk.” *happy sigh*

    Mini!Dean and baby!Sam.

    Dean’s whole speech/scene with his Mom. It was amazing. This is the sort of work, I feel, that should be considered for an Emmy. I know there’s no chance of Jensen being nominated, which is a shame, but his work in this episode was stellar and I wish the industry would recognize it. His speech to his Mom about hating her and blaming her for everything was intense and effective. His forgiveness was touching. Just…he hit it out of the park. Well done.

    Toni’s dead and Ketch is there. Totally knew Mary would end up taking out Ketch. I kept going “and then Mary shoots him” as the fight progressed. And then…Mary shot him. When Ketch said that line about the two of them beings killers, I feel they missed an opportunity to do a “like mother, like son” line, though.

    The hunters find out that Lucifer is free, Jody takes out the BMOL lady (though one wonders what the guy on the other end of the line thought? And will the BMOL now leave the American Hunters alone?), there’s a big explosion.

    Back to Sam and Mary. “Who we are? We kick ass. We save the world.” Nice.

    Sam returns and we get a big family group hug that was sweet at the end (and another reminder of just how tall Jared is! He towered over both of them!).

    On to 12.23.
    The Road so Far. How I do look forward to the return of “Carry On”.

    No surprise at the reveal about Crowley. It was fairly obvious what he had done.

    Lucifer’s off screen killing of Rowena. Seemed like a bit of a cop out. Also, he’s killed her before and she’s returned…

    Castiel to a post-apocalypse world, where the boys were never born, never saved the world.

    Kelly naming her son Jack? Wonder where that name came from?

    Dean punching Crowley in the face. I laughed. Crowley admits he hates his job and that he’s placing his bets on the Winchesters. Good call, Crowley. He makes a deal with the boys to defeat Luci and then he’ll lock the Gates of Hell. I didn’t know he could do that? Dean stabbing Crowley in the hand. Cool scene but you know he was gonna get loose!

    Kelly goes into labor, the Winchesters show up, Cas fixes Dean’s knee and they go through the tear in time and space. It turns out to be an alternate reality (loved the references to various AUs). And eternal war between Heaven and Hell.

    I’d seen spoilery pics of Cas meeting up with the person on the other world. I have to admit, I had hoped it would be John. Either as Matt or as JDM. I really wanted that. But Bobby’s cool. It was a huge surprise though (he wasn’t in the opening credits, either, which was a nice touch. Mark Sheppard pulled that a few years ago too.). Still, a wee bit disappointed it wasn’t Papa Winchester. And the gun being named Rufus was awesome!

    “Angel killing bullets? Awesome”. Awww, Dean. Also, when those failed later, I was surprised. If they were made from angels blade (and we know angel blades kill arcangels—one killed Gabriel) then they should have taken out Luci.

    Dean has faith in family (and Crowley. Sometimes. LOL)

    Sam saying Chuck will stop Lucifer. Um, Sam, Chuck has left the building. The solar system. He’s not gonna help.

    Going through the tear, Dean vs. Luci then Crowley vs. Luci. Crowley sacrifices himself to close the door. I did not see that coming.

    Lucifer killing Cas is another thing I did not see coming. And yet, both deaths left me kind of going “yeah, okay”. But—maybe I’ve just gotten too inured by death on SPN. It’s sort of like when a character dies in comics. You go “okay” and wait for them to return. That’s how it’s gotten, for me at least, on SPN. Eileen, I was more upset by because sometimes minor characters who die do not return. Major ones, though? Yeah, pretty sure he/they will be back.

    Kelly, most likely, will not be. I just straight up sighed when I saw that the baby had done the transformation to full grown adult. Super sped up baby stories almost never work out well. And it looks like Jack (as Kelly seemingly named her son) will be the big bad of Season 13?
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  • #2
    I have a lot of issues with these two episodes, and actually a lot of the whole season. I loved loved loved the scene with Dean and Mary in their heads. Jensen should get an Emmy....he really should. There are those man tears again....he does them so well.

    I keep having these conversations in my head about the finale and then go, "oh, wait, WTF was that all about?" as I sift through it.

    1. Been there, done that....some of the tried and true writing from the past just doesn't need to be repeated again and again. We now have plot holes inside and on top of plot holes that are not being addressed....

    2. So, everybody dies except Jody.... the one person who SHOULD have died based on how many other female characters in 12 years have bit it....yet, this one gets a pass.

    3. Rowena....I am super-annoyed that she did not get a proper send off. Such a great character. She deserved better.

    4. Mary....we all knew she was going to disappear or die in the end. "What's dead should stay dead." But now she is in an alternate universe (way too many altverses on the CW lately....I get confused. I half expected to see Savitar in there with Lucifer. She was the payback for the blood deal with Billie. BUT, she is not dead, but in the "cage" with Lucifer.

    5. Bobby. That was just too much fan service. I love Bobby, but it just didn't feel right.

    6. Lucifer. Well, why can't he be killed? He's just an archangel. Gabriel, Raphael are dead....Michael is incapacitated (plot hole) so why can't they just kill him? They even said these episodes that he couldn't be killed. Why? Besides the fact that I love Mark P. and would love to see him actually redeemed at some point, I just don't see it. He's tucked back in a cage again for later.

    7. Crowley. This was just way too quick. He goes from being kind of his normal Crowley self for most of the season, then has an epiphany in the last half-hour of the season that he hates hell, hates the paperwork, and just want to be hanging out with the Winchesters....where he said it was the safe place to be. Then within minutes of that speech he commits suicide. I know it was to save Sam and Dean and to trap Lucifer, but come on.....really? The King of Hell? Unless he knew he'd go to Purgatory or some place to later sneak out, but that's a long shot.

    8. And Castiel....this was an absolute travesty to this character. I've said it before, if the writers couldn't find a way to use Castiel going forward, they should have let him die when he was stabbed by the spear. That would have been a more fitting death for a beloved character. With all his family around him saying goodbye and showing him how much he meant to them. He was just stabbed in the back by Lucifer. Drops and Dean is shocked but not destroyed. Sam runs off. It was so totally wrong for the writers to let him go this way. And the big kicker is that, again, Cas thought he was doing what was right. He saw "paradise" (which I think was his own Heaven he was about to go to), and naively believed that was what the "good" nephilim was going to bring to earth. So, the writers killed off this beloved member of the Winchester family, again, did the totally wrong thing by breaking away from the boys and trying to find his purpose. Perhaps Jack will bring Cas back....perhaps Crowley is in Purgatory with that stupid rabbit hole into hell.

    If the reason for doing all this killing was to have Sam and Dean fully alone now without super-powered beings saving the day, everybody killed should have been given a better send off.

    I'm sure I'll remember other things I didn't like, but those are the toppers.

    Comment


    • #3
      I think just as Lucifer was going to kill Mary in that other world, Bobby probably stepped in and saved her....in offscreenville, lol


      Knowing how these shows work with their death angles, it wouldn't surprise me if Castiel, Crowley, and Rowena all returned at somepoint in season 13. Like mentioned above me, their deaths could've been played out in better fashion. Each death didn't feel proper....had all three died last season in their big battle against the darkness, then that would've been a great way for them to die.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by SuperSheltie
        I loved loved loved the scene with Dean and Mary in their heads. Jensen should get an Emmy....he really should.
        100% agreed. That was some of Jensen's best stuff. .

        3. Rowena....I am super-annoyed that she did not get a proper send off. Such a great character. She deserved better.
        To me--because they killed her off screen--I'm thinking she'll be back. After all, as I stated, Rowena has been killed by Lucifer before....

        She was the payback for the blood deal with Billie.
        Do you know, I had completely forgotten about the whole thing with Billie until someone else mentioned it? I hadn't thought of Mary's fate being the consequences though. Huh.

        6. Lucifer. Well, why can't he be killed? He's just an archangel.
        Exactly. I mean, okay, he's pretty powerful but still. If the other arc angels can be killed, surely Luci can be too?

        He was just stabbed in the back by Lucifer. Drops and Dean is shocked but not destroyed. Sam runs off.
        Jensen said, at JIBCon this weekend, that we'll almost certainly see more of the boys (and especially Dean's) reaction to Cas's death in Season 13. Though, honestly, I don't expect Cas to stay dead long.

        Comment


        • #5
          I had watched some of the jibcon videos and, yeah, Cas will be back, at least for the Scooby Doo episode (thanks Jared! LOL), and Misha also seemed to hint that Cas would be back in some form or another.

          I'm glad we will see the repercussions of Cas's death in Season 13, and I'll wait until some spoilers from Comic Con, but I also pray that Crowley will be back...

          Comment


          • #6
            You know, we'll probably see some forms of all three in season 13. We possibly could get their versions of the characters from that alternate earth where Sam and Dean were never born. Imagine seeing Crowley as a hunter? LOL or Castiel as a demon or that sort....would be funny to see.

            Comment


            • #7
              I could see that with a lot of the people we lost over the years, even Rowena (even though I loved her) and perhaps Crowley, but I'd like to see more of just one episode of him in the altverse as a good hunter....BUT if all we got was an Alt-Cas for an episode or two, THAT would not be acceptable IMO. Bringing the Alt-Cas into the real universe is probably what the writers would do, but not 100% on board with that idea either. I hope that Crowley is in Purgatory and finds the rabbit hole.

              I would be kinda okay with Jack having Jimmy's vessel, although (plot hole) nephilim don't need vessels, which would give Misha the ability to flex his acting muscles, but that Cas is still in there like he was when Lucifer possessed him.

              I am feeling a bit better now knowing that he will be back....I guess just anxiously awaiting the spoilers from ComicCon as to how.

              Comment


              • #8
                Archangels can only be killed by special means. Gabriel was killed with an archangel's blade, which don't seem to be around these days. I'm not even convinced he's dead given what happened in Meta Fiction and how he winked when Cas asked him if he's really dead, but that's another topic.

                Raphael was killed with the power of millions of monsters' souls. I'm glad Lucifer isn't dead because he's the most threatening villain this show has had since Azazel, who was by far the most threatening villain, even though he's nowhere near as powerful as Lucifer. Azazel's mere presence in Salvation showed how threatening he was and he didn't have a single line in that episode. It wasn't until he possessed John that he finally spoke and by then he was already cemented as a terrifying villain who even John was afraid of and did not want his children around.

                Anyway, whatever season ends up being the final season will need Luci's presence. I would like him as a villain but I'm not sure what else he can do in an apocalypse 2.0. One thing I'd like to see him do is create new white eyed and maybe yellow eyed demons. I also want them to bring back the Duane Tanner demon from Croatoan as that is my favorite episode and they never ever went back to show what the hell happened to all those people who disappeared from River Grove, OR and especially to Duane Tanner and the strain of Croatoan virus he was doing R & D testing on there, which was quite different from the strain that Brady mass produced at Niveus in season 5. I would like them to explain that even though Sam & Dean stopped the Croatoan virus from become an epidemic, Duane Tanner still had strains of the virus that he had been spreading in small amounts to prepare for an attack and see him as one of the demons reporting to Lucifer.

                I also want to see Lucifer taking a command & control role with reapers (like a mobster becomes a mob boss when he sees a void in a certain area of the black market or creates a void, ala Tony Montana in Scarface) and also set his sights on ruling Heaven, much like I wanted Crowley to try to do in season 10 after Metatron was stopped. By this I mean he would see how the reapers have no leader after the deaths of Death and Billie and he would move in to become a new Death of sorts and demand them to deliver very high body counts. I also want to see the Fate Sisters brought back (well we only saw one of them so far) and him involved in writing his own script for them to follow. We heard how Michael, Raphael, and Zachariah were writing their own story by telling the lower angels one thing (that they wanted the apocalypse stopped) while in reality they "wrote the script" to make sure it happened. I would like to actually see Lucifer "writing the script" so to speak by using his power to influence reapers, the fates, and angels loyal to him to make sure that his will is done.

                Maybe they could do it in a way where he starts accepting certain humans but uses other ones for his own pleasure or tries to become pretty much like God/Chuck back in his days of wrath to show his father up and try to outshine him. There's still lots they can do with Luci.

                As for Michael, when he returns I hope he's not insane like Lucifer was saying he was because that would make zero sense. If anything, he should be very angry, kind of like Cas was after he found out that God would not help them after the events of Dark Side of the Moon, but much much worse because of how loyal he was and what he got back for his loyalty. I still think it would be very interesting if it's revealed that he turned Adam into his first demon as a result of his fury and Adam would be a different kind of demon than we've ever seen before due to Michael not being a fallen angel and him being the oldest & most powerful archangel. I would like when he returns to show him as being more sympathetic to his brother after seeing what his loyalty got him.

                I absolutely don't want them giving Jack the power to resurrect angels because such a thing should be only be possible by Chuck. Not even archangels could resurrect dead angels and the power needed to do so should only be possessed by the God of Supernatural, aka Chuck.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by SuperSheltie
                  I also pray that Crowley will be back...
                  [SPOILER]Mark Sheppard just announced he's left the show, then further clarified that he won't even be back for a guest appearance and/or cameo--at least for a while, he said. So Crowley is truly and really dead, it seems.[/SPOILER]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    So bummed.....

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I just finished season 12 and realized that I missed a majority of season 11....oh well. At least, season 12 was one of the better seasons that they've had in a while.

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