Loved It? Hated It? What did you think of "How the Riddler Got His Name?"

[Aries83]

What did you think?

Edit: I gave it a 9, because I thought it was a lot better than the previous episode.

I thought Lucius/Leslie were well utilized (OMG, Leslie actually did her job!).

There was some good character development for Bruce (I really liked the training/fight scenes).

The Court of Owls managed to get a little more interesting thanks to Gordon's shady uncle, I just hope it goes somewhere good.

Of course, the highlight was Nygma's "transformation" into The Riddler.

I enjoyed all of those scenes, especially the last one on the river dock (when Edward admitted he cared for/missed Oswald). It was nice to have him acknowledge their friendship.

The biggest head-scratcher was the musical number from "Psyche Oswald." I know Nygma said he loved Isabella, but there was definitely some sexual subtext there (Nygma looked aroused and was biting his lips—as if he was making a meal out of Oswald).

If there's nothing there, why show that?

Anyway, I do wonder what Penguin's response will be...

Ivy had the best line of the episode, though. "Who are you?" I'm Ivy Pepper. Are you stupid?"...

Anybody have any guesses as to where Bruce is being held?

Great episode. I hope next week is just as good!

[costas22]

Yeah, Lee is ok when she comes in small doses, isn't she?

Apparently Ben McKenzie had a very reduced role in this episode because he was preparing to direct episode 3.16. They actually did a good job coming up with a plan B by pushing Lucius at the forefront. His character hasn't been utilized much so far, so it was great to see more of him and have Nygma's transformation to The Riddler tied to Lucius and his wits. Good stuff all around. It does make you wonder though. If Nygma is already The Riddler now, where does he go from here? He has to wait an awfully long time until Bruce grows up to be his nemesis.

The Penguin hallucinations were a fitting way to delve into Nygma's psyche, seeing how close they were and how Penguin truly was the one to bring Nygma's dark side to the surface. As for Oswald's musical performance...yeah, I have nothing! Don't know if it was meant to suggest anything more or if Nygma is truly that far gone now.

I also got a good chuckle at Ivy's line. These two should make an interesting pair as Oswald prepares to repay Nygma's kindness.

To be honest, I'm a bit tired of the clone storyline. They (somewhat) did it earlier this season and it's one of the most reycled plot devices used in tv and film anyway. As far as the real Bruce is concerned, I'm guessing he's in Nanda Parbat?

Can't wait to see how Ben does in his directing debut next week.

P.S. "Thirio" does indeed mean beast in Greek. So kudos to the writers. Unlike the Arrow writers last year, they know how to use a Greek/English dictionary.

[AsteroidMike]

I don't know why I fooled myself into thinking Oswald was dead for real. Granted, he was shot up close in a spot that should be fatal but television over the years has taught me that no one's ever dead until they show a body.

What I do like is how Nygma is now fully embracing his villain role even more.

Also I'm just learning Ben McKenzie is directing an episode and I have to say that's pretty awesome.

[YutG]

This is the first episode that I watched from start to finish in a looong time

I applaud Nygma/cobblepot. Nygma's transformation blows away everyone elses out of the water not counting Bruce's. Ed and Penguin do a lot of good work.

A (love) letter from Selina? Obviously a trap. I mean come on Selina is more "the punch you in the face" type of girl than a letter.

Bruce's training is paying off and that fight Scene is great. David is coming into his role as Batman quite nicely. David will probably be challenged more in future pulling double duty as Bruce and Clone Bruce. Hopefully he is up for it. Wasn't sure about him in season 1 but he's proven himself.

where is Bruce Wayne now? There are supposed to be rumors of Ra's Al Ghul coming to the show so likely candidate is League of Assasin's hide out.

I don't know about you guys but I am hoping Bruce Breaks out of there and make his way back to Gotham on his own. A hooded figure running around at night hitting the Court of Owl's interests investigating them even as Bruce Clone is in the public eye.

[Aries83]

Yeah, Lee is ok when she comes in small doses, isn't she?

I'll take her like this. Thank God they've gotten rid of the back/forth between her and Gordon!

The Penguin hallucinations were a fitting way to delve into Nygma's psyche, seeing how close they were and how Penguin truly was the one to bring Nygma's dark side to the surface. As for Oswald's musical performance...yeah, I have nothing! Don't know if it was meant to suggest anything more or if Nygma is truly that far gone now.

Yeah, that sequence was kind of puzzling. There's more to come between these two, though. Penguin is out for blood!

I also got a good chuckle at Ivy's line. These two should make an interesting pair as Oswald prepares to repay Nygma's kindness.

I agree. I can't wait!

To be honest, I'm a bit tired of the clone storyline. They (somewhat) did it earlier this season and it's one of the most reycled plot devices used in tv and film anyway. As far as the real Bruce is concerned, I'm guessing he's in Nanda Parbat?

I agree about the clone. It seems like they keep spinning their wheels on this one without knowing where to go with it. Personally, I'd rather have the clone be on Bruce's side. It might be good for him to be around someone other than Alfred, too.

television over the years has taught me that no one's ever dead until they show a body.

You are so right, AsteroidMike!

where is Bruce Wayne now? There are supposed to be rumors of Ra's Al Ghul coming to the show so likely candidate is League of Assasin's hide out.

Really? I haven't read any spoilers since the break. Well, I hope their interpretation of Al Ghul is better than the Christopher Nolan version.

[TheSecretVampire]

Yeah, I figured that Penguin would survive that gunshot wound, but it's pretty much a common mistake where the shooter doesn't MAKE sure the person they shot....is dead in these comic book shows, lol. But it's a interesting duo team up perhaps with Penguin and Ivy. I'm pretty sure Ivy has something sinister planned in mind because I doubt she nursed him back to health just out of kindness.


I really liked how someone else not named Jim Gordon got a crack at The Riddler. That plotline was getting repetitive with Gordon taking on the main villain for each episode so it was refreshing to see Mr. Fox take him on. And they need something new for Selina to do, it's getting boring watching her hot and cold act with Bruce. She needs her own plotline to go on.

[YutG]

I'll take her like this. Thank God they've gotten rid of the back/forth between her and Gordon!

Really? I haven't read any spoilers since the break. Well, I hope their interpretation of Al Ghul is better than the Christopher Nolan version.

As long as he's better than the Arrow's interpretation...I hope you don't mind spoilers but He's being played my Alexander Siddig (Julian Bashir)

The limited amount of Gordon and Lee made this episode better.

[Aries83]

I'm pretty sure Ivy has something sinister planned in mind because I doubt she nursed him back to health just out of kindness.

Well, I hope she doesn't try to seduce him. She'd be barking up the wrong tree... Then again, she may need to learn that some men are immune to her charms

I really liked how someone else not named Jim Gordon got a crack at The Riddler. That plotline was getting repetitive with Gordon taking on the main villain for each episode so it was refreshing to see Mr. Fox take him on.

That's a good point (about Gordon). There's no point in having all these characters if they're not used.

I hope you don't mind spoilers but He's being played my Alexander Siddig (Julian Bashir)

Oh, it's all good. I would've found out anyway... It's funny, I watched DS9 as a kid and haven't really seen any of his other stuff. This should be interesting

The limited amount of Gordon and Lee made this episode better.

It always does...

[Aurora Moon]

I was kind of afraid that they would drop the Oswald Cobblepot/Edward Nygma plot point once Cobblepot was "killed" off and that they would act like it never happened. but I'm happy to see that Cobblepot had an effect on Nygma just as much as he did on Cobblepot.

This dysfunctional relationship should make some fans happy, even if a few still wishes that they had gotten together as an actual couple. Love-hate relationships is basically food for shippers who love writing that kind of fanfic. :P Not to mention it's very interesting to watch too.

I was just as confused as other posters here, with the weird improv musical number.

I was also glad that Fox was the one to tackle The riddler head on instead of Jim Gordon. let the other characters get their own spotlight for once!

[Aries83]

I was kind of afraid that they would drop the Oswald Cobblepot/Edward Nygma plot point once Cobblepot was "killed" off and that they would act like it never happened. but I'm happy to see that Cobblepot had an effect on Nygma just as much as he did on Cobblepot.

This dysfunctional relationship should make some fans happy, even if a few still wishes that they had gotten together as an actual couple. Love-hate relationships is basically food for shippers who love writing that kind of fanfic. :P Not to mention it's very interesting to watch too.

I agree. For some reason, I have it in my mind that Oswald's stance on revenge will soften the second he comes face to face with Nygma again. Then again, he might not let his feelings get in the way of revenge. Either way, they'll still have scenes together, which is better than nothing.

I was just as confused as other posters here, with the weird improv musical number.

For me, it's confusing because they already had Nygma say he didn't love Oswald before he shot him, which pretty much killed a lot of people's hopes that they'd actually become a couple.

Now, we get this odd musical number filled to the brim with homoerotic subtext, with Nygma looking aroused (and biting his bottom lip).

I guess what I was getting at was: If he has no romantic feelings for Oswald whatsoever, why include that scene?

Personally, I'd LOVE for them to go there, but if they have absolutely 100% no intention of making them a real couple, then they should probably stop including ambiguous scenes like that and just focus on a love-hate relationship (like you said).

[TheSecretVampire]

I wonder if these plotlines will cross with each other by the end of the season...

Court of Owls, The Riddler, whatever Penguin and Ivy do, the possible return of Fish Mooney and Hugo Strange.....I'm sure whatever their plan is for Gotham, they don't want any annoyances like The Riddler in their way.