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"Moonshot" Countdown/LIVE Discussion Thread!

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  • "Moonshot" Countdown/LIVE Discussion Thread!

    Count down to tonight's Legends and talk about it LIVE here as it airs, if you want!

    Here are some pics:


  • #2
    There's bound to be an Apollo 13 movie reference in this episode.

    Comment


    • #3
      Oh, not just an Apollo 13 reference. But Interstellar and The Martian references too. The setting for this episode was pretty fun, although I'd lie if I said I understood all the science jargon this episode unleashed on us.

      The parts I really enjoyed in this episode were the scenes with Thawne and Palmer. Reverse Flash is probably the most interesting member of the Legion, because he's the only one who hasn't been plagued by horrible writing on his show. And Matt Letscher knows how to bring gravitas to his role. At the same time, those scenes finally gave Brandon Routh some serious material to work with, seeing as he's been made into the team's goof this season.

      The scenes involving Nate and Amaya failed to get me invested because I haven't been able to get interested in either character. I'm just glad that Commander Steele's presence FINALLY addressed the elephant in the room about Amaya causing an aberration when she jumped on the ship and the need to send her back to her time. At the same time, because this show loves its time travel inconsistencies, why would Commander Steele cause an aberration by returning back to his time? Rip yanked him off the timeline. Isn't that the aberration?

      Some retcons in this episode as well. For starters, Eobard saying that he worked with Caitlin and Cisco. Isn't that wrong? This version of Eobard is the guy who left the original timeline and went back to kill Barry's mom. He hasn't worked with Caitlin and Cisco yet. Another retcon was Steele saying that the team is working perfectly without grudges. Lol, there are arguements within this team every week! But probably the most annoying was Rip telling Sara that she was a better captain than he ever was. Sure show. Maybe it's also a matter of personal preference, but I liked Rip much better in the role of Captain and it truly makes one wonder what his purpose on the show is now.

      Not enough Mick, but his intro always cracks me up.

      5/10
      Last edited by costas22; 03-15-2017, 04:50 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by costas22
        Some retcons in this episode as well. For starters, Eobard saying that he worked with Caitlin and Cisco. Isn't that wrong? This version of Eobard is the guy who left the original timeline and went back to kill Barry's mom. He hasn't worked with Caitlin and Cisco yet. Another retcon was Steele saying that the team is working perfectly without grudges. Lol, there are arguements within this team every week! But probably the most annoying was Rip telling Sara that she was a better captain than he ever was. Sure show. Maybe it's also a matter of personal preference, but I liked Rip much better in the role of Captain and it truly makes one wonder what his purpose on the show is now.
        I don't think any of that was a retcon, this Eobard is still the same one who was masquerading as Wells. He got erased via Eddie's sacrificed and then un-erased so he still exists and remembers all of it, and especially Flashpoint. Not sure who's a better captain, Rip or Sara. Rip gets points against him since he recruited them all based on false pretenses.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by AsteroidMike
          I don't think any of that was a retcon, this Eobard is still the same one who was masquerading as Wells. He got erased via Eddie's sacrificed and then un-erased so he still exists and remembers all of it, and especially Flashpoint. Not sure who's a better captain, Rip or Sara. Rip gets points against him since he recruited them all based on false pretenses.
          But this isn't the same Eobard who would go on to masquerade as Wells and then work with Cisco, Caitlin and Barry. This Eobard didn't stay stranded in 2000, because he was yanked from there by Barry and imprisoned in Flashpoint. And after Flashpoint ended, he run off and began his quest to collect the spear. So he never killed the original Wells and stole his identity. The whole thing is a time paradox actually that the show has chosen to ignore.

          I agree that Rip was dishonest when he recruited the Legends and there were also a couple of times last year when he didn't act like a real leader. However, he's also someone who sacrificed himself twice for the team (once in last season's finale and once in this season's premiere). At the same time, I can't say that I've seen many leadership qualities in Sara that stick out. She doesn't seem to care about protecting the timeline a great deal, there were a couple of times where she put the mission at risk and at Camelot she was about to leave a team member behind before she was talked out of it. Both are flawed leaders. I just don't see how she's a "much better captain than he ever was"...
          Last edited by costas22; 03-15-2017, 06:31 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by costas22
            But this isn't the same Eobard who would go on to masquerade as Wells and then work with Cisco, Caitlin and Barry. This Eobard didn't stay stranded in 2000, because he was yanked from there by Barry and imprisoned in Flashpoint. And after Flashpoint ended, he run off and began his quest to collect the spear. So he never killed the original Wells and stole his identity. The whole thing is a time paradox actually that the show has chosen to ignore.
            But then Barry freed Thawne and then corrected the timeline in the "right" way by killing Nora Allen and then returning him to his normal period. So basically everything at that point, meaning leaving him at Joe's doorstep at the end of season 2 should've played out exactly the same.

            Originally posted by costas22
            I agree that Rip was dishonest when he recruited the Legends and there were also a couple of times last year when he didn't act like a real leader. However, he's also someone who sacrificed himself twice for the team (once in last season's finale and once in this season's premiere). At the same time, I can't say that I've seen many leadership qualities in Sara that stick out. She doesn't seem to care about protecting the timeline a great deal, there were a couple of times where she put the mission at risk and at Camelot she was about to leave a team member behind before she was talked out of it. Both are flawed leaders. I just don't see how she's a "much better captain than he ever was"...
            Yeah, really hard to tell who's better or worse. I do recall Sara trying to kill Darhk earlier this season as revenge for Laurel but Jax I think called her out and said something along the lines of "guess time travel rules don't apply to you," though she did warn him of his eventual failure in the future at the end of said episode. Then again dating back to last season when Laurel died she called out Rip because he wouldn't let her intervene and she said "you'll tamper with time to save your family but won't allow me to do the same for mine?"

            Comment


            • #7
              Probably going to skip this ep, but now that we're nearing the end of the season, I'm once again dreading the finale, because I'm not sure who's going to be back next season. It seems like with the exception of ray, Nate, and Sarah,everyone is poised to make some life altering changes, even without the spear. I'm really not sure where this show will be going next year, or who will still be on board.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by AsteroidMike
                But then Barry freed Thawne and then corrected the timeline in the "right" way by killing Nora Allen and then returning him to his normal period. So basically everything at that point, meaning leaving him at Joe's doorstep at the end of season 2 should've played out exactly the same.
                That's the part that always confuses me. Because the Thawne who was going to kill Nora and masquerade as Wells got erased. Then the Thawne who Barry had imprisoned at Flashpoint killed Nora to fix the timeline but didn't stay there (he took Barry back to 2016 and then vanished). So I don't think there was any version of Thawne left in 2000 to kill the real Wells and take his identity. Of course this is all based on my limited knowledge of time travel. The shows tend to change their rules as they go along.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Not sure what to say about this episode. It just sort of... happened. You have Amaya learning about her future, at the end, but that's more (I'm assuming) set up for the next episode, where she'll (probably) be tempted to use the spear to [SPOILER]rewrite her future.[/SPOILER]

                  On the topic of the inconsistent time travel rules. I've pretty much stopped caring. Just clinging to the hope that they'll abandon time travel for season 3.

                  Originally posted by costas22
                  I just don't see how she's a "much better captain than he ever was"...
                  She's an original character, created for the show (well, for Arrow), that's why. Not sure if you've noticed it, but the "Arrowverse" shows tend to favor their own original characters, over existing DC characters (when it comes to the main cast).

                  Sara on this show. Alex on Supergirl. Felicity on Arrow (she shares a name with a pre-existing DC character, but I still place her in this category as like 99,99 % about her is original to the show) and The Flash is pretty much just a vehicle for Tom Cavanagh to show his range with the various incarnations of Harrison Wells.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Loved Mick's intro. One day they should just have him start an intro, get frustrated and leave, Rip or Sara calling him back in vain -- and the recap scenes just play out in total silence. That would be gold.

                    Thawne and Ray's scenes on Apollo 13 were the highlight of the episode. This really was their episode. It shows that when they give BR decent material to work with, he's going to kill it. I agree that it is a waste to use him just for comedic relief lately when his ability is much more than this.

                    Nate and Amaya are kind of just there, not really invested in them, the Cmdr. Steele subplot was okay but all the convoluted change time/save time debating just doesn't make sense any more. The senior Steele ultimately made the correct decision, but it looks like Amaya will be picking up the time-meddling torch soon enough, now that she learned her family's future.

                    LoT may work better as a straight-up adventure series without time travel, but the time travel gimmick has always been the means to get them to these adventures. Without time travel, I'm not sure what their mission would actually be on paper, if it's not to fix timeline aberrations ... and, more often than not lately, to cause them. Family first.

                    Yeah, there's a bit of an original character bias at play, the way they lionize Sara's leadership (not all that different to how they lionized her vigilante skills as Canary) in comparison to Rip. Rip meet Laurel, Laurel meet Rip. Maybe he'll have his own identity crisis subplot, forging a role that isn't as captain. He deserves more than bench warmer status.

                    If we've watched the whole Berlantiverse, we have the benefit of knowing Sara's backstory and how she got from point A to B to C in her character's journey. If we were just a LoT viewer without that knowledge, I'd be hard pressed to find a heck of a lot of meaty characterization for LoT Sara: basically we're told she's skilled assassin, a lost soul looking to keep her darker tendencies at bay, maybe find redemption, and she digs women. You'd have to watch Arrow to truly grasp all of those themes from her character.

                    Without their previous build up on other series, she Mick, Stein and Ray -- the veteran characters who existed before LoT (Jax is more a LoT than a Flash character, even though he was born on The Flash) -- aren't given nearly enough individually as characters on LoT to really get to know them. It's largely due to the actors' efforts more than the scant material they're given, that keeps them interesting.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jon-el87
                      On the topic of the inconsistent time travel rules. I've pretty much stopped caring. Just clinging to the hope that they'll abandon time travel for season 3.
                      Before season 2 I had a tiny hope that they would go a different route and travel across the multiverse than through time. I think visiting alternate Earths would be a good way to introduce the same characters in different ways and freshen up this show's narrative a bit.

                      Originally posted by jon-el87
                      She's an original character, created for the show (well, for Arrow), that's why. Not sure if you've noticed it, but the "Arrowverse" shows tend to favor their own original characters, over existing DC characters (when it comes to the main cast).

                      Sara on this show. Alex on Supergirl. Felicity on Arrow (she shares a name with a pre-existing DC character, but I still place her in this category as like 99,99 % about her is original to the show) and The Flash is pretty much just a vehicle for Tom Cavanagh to show his range with the various incarnations of Harrison Wells.
                      That's a good point and it truly feels like the reason for the current dynamic between Sara and Rip. And I would throw Jax in that arguement as well. He hasn't been favored like some of the other characters you mentioned, but I have noticed a tendency to make him look more important and valuable to the team than a character like Ray Palmer, who's been relegated mostly to comedy relief this season.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        couple of random theories about Eo's comment...

                        We've seen the few times that Barry's time travelled (thru the Speed force) that he's seen glimpses of past and future. With the amount of time that Eo's spent in the Speed force time travelling (looking for the spear, trying to outrun BF, etc), maybe he's seen a lot of glimpses of his life as Eowells. And maybe he's formed this attachment/affection for Caitlin and Cisco thru that, kinda like how we form attachments/affection for our fave characters on TV shows, movies, etc. Or maybe he's become so absorbed in these "memory" flashes, that he actually does feel like he's lived thru them himself.
                        another possibility..... i think we all know that he's gonna succeed in rewriting himself back into existence (the writers would be stupid not to), so he'll be able to appear in future eps of Flash/Legends. That being said, perhaps some time in the future (after 2x11 but before he goes back and kills Nora) he returns to present day and ends up having to work with Team Flash for some reason (as himself, not Wells) and this might be the instance he's talking about, not Flash season 1...

                        still kinda leaning towards the whole "writers stuffed up and forgot their own continuity" thing tho


                        on a slightly diff note, loved the interactions between Eo and Ray. Hell, I'm just happy that Eo got a decent amount of screen time for once! lol
                        But what is with Ray getting stuck in a tight situation with a villain/criminal and somewhat bonding with them during the ordeal and both coming out with a mutual understanding/respect for each other? lol (well, i dunno if i would call it mutual respect/understanding in Eo's case. he doesn't really have any respect for most ppl (Rip being one of the few ppl he does seem to respect), he's too arrogant and full of himself for that, but there def was something there)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by witchymumma
                          couple of random theories about Eo's comment...

                          We've seen the few times that Barry's time travelled (thru the Speed force) that he's seen glimpses of past and future. With the amount of time that Eo's spent in the Speed force time travelling (looking for the spear, trying to outrun BF, etc), maybe he's seen a lot of glimpses of his life as Eowells. And maybe he's formed this attachment/affection for Caitlin and Cisco thru that, kinda like how we form attachments/affection for our fave characters on TV shows, movies, etc. Or maybe he's become so absorbed in these "memory" flashes, that he actually does feel like he's lived thru them himself.
                          another possibility..... i think we all know that he's gonna succeed in rewriting himself back into existence (the writers would be stupid not to), so he'll be able to appear in future eps of Flash/Legends. That being said, perhaps some time in the future (after 2x11 but before he goes back and kills Nora) he returns to present day and ends up having to work with Team Flash for some reason (as himself, not Wells) and this might be the instance he's talking about, not Flash season 1...

                          still kinda leaning towards the whole "writers stuffed up and forgot their own continuity" thing tho


                          on a slightly diff note, loved the interactions between Eo and Ray. Hell, I'm just happy that Eo got a decent amount of screen time for once! lol
                          But what is with Ray getting stuck in a tight situation with a villain/criminal and somewhat bonding with them during the ordeal and both coming out with a mutual understanding/respect for each other? lol (well, i dunno if i would call it mutual respect/understanding in Eo's case. he doesn't really have any respect for most ppl (Rip being one of the few ppl he does seem to respect), he's too arrogant and full of himself for that, but there def was something there)
                          In my wildest dreams, I'd love to see a good guy version of eobard thawne.

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