Loved it or Hated it? What did you think of "Legendary"?

[Aurora Moon]

Noticed that there wasn't any poll here, so I made one.

[costas22]

Thanks! Being waiting a while to get this review off my chest. All in all, I'd say that it was a very strong finale. Each character got to shine in their own way, Savage was disposed off in a satisfactory manner and we got a very interesting cliffhanger for season 2.

- They certainly went big as far as Savage's endgame was concerned. I won't try to make sense a lot of the technical stuff (for example, they killed Savage 3 times, but he still exists as an immortal in other time periods, doesn't he?) because the show clearly makes them up as it goes along. It was certainly a fitting end and I guess you can say the people who had dibs on killing Savage (Sara and Mick for Snart and Rip for his family) got the do the honors. I was also satisfied with Rip's storyline in this episode. He was willing to sacrifice himself but after a brief moment of reunion with his family, he got to realize he still has a purpose in life and returned.

- The set up for season 2 is most intriguing. The introduction of the JSA is promising and it might also mean that there's some alternate Earth travelling next season (which I'd love to see). Obviously time travel is still involved, because Hourman arrives in a future version of the Waverider and on future Mick's orders. One of my concerns is what the JSA will look like. The Berlanti-verse has already introduced a number of its members: Wildcat, the Hawks, Mr Terrific and I suspect the Flash will introduce the real Jay Garrick fairly soon.

- I must say that I am beyond ecstatic that season 2 won't be about the Thanagarians and that the Hawks' have left the show. With all due respect to Ciara and Falk, their characters just never clicked with me. As far as trimming the fat goes, the show made the right decision. No complaints about the remaining members of the team and with the right additions, it will have a better look about it next season.

- This episode went on to prove how much better Ray (as well as the show in general) comes across when there's no Kendra/Ray nonsense. I liked his rapport with Mick and there's a lot of promise there for an odd couple friendship.

- Obviously I'm happy that Mick *seems* to be a regular for season 2. Purcell has made the character more fun and purposeful than he had any right to be. His one liners are one of my favorite parts of the show. At the same time, he can be very subtle and realistic when it comes to the emotional stuff, as we saw in the bar scene with Snart.

- Seems like this review has been way too positive. Ranting time. One of the biggest talking points of this episode is the fallout from Sara finding out about Laurel. There's so much contradiction and retconning in this storyline that it's unreal. For starters, the notion that Laurel's fate is set and that there's nothing that can change it is absurd, considering that just last week the team destroyed the Oculus in order for people to be in control of their own destinies. Besides, isn't this a show about time travelers altering timelines and changing people's fates? Plus, in a previous episode we saw Jax actually warn his father about the accident that leds to his death and Rip was fine with it. To the point where he let Jax believe that he may have actually helped save his dad. Why can't Sara at least do that? Go back a couple of months and warn Team Arrow about Andy's betrayal and about how idiotic they were to rebuild Darhk's idol? While I am still upset about the whole Laurel thing, in this instance I am even more annoyed by the double standards this show seems to operate on. No surprise Marc Guggenheim was one of the writers for this episode. The lame excuse as to why Laurel can't be saved reeked of his bs.

- On a similar note, Sara's characterization was baffling in this episode. When she returns home, she sees her dad distraught over her sister's death and she knows that Laurel's killer is still at large. Yet, she opts to leave again because she wants to be a time traveler to honor Laurel. It's good that she will be a part of the team in season 2, but Sara is starting to become the new Henry Allen of the Berlanti-verse: Her character's excuses for leaving feel more and more ludicrous each time.

The last 2 paragraphs aside, it was an enjoyable finale. Giving it a 8/10. As a whole, I give the first season a 6.5/10. It has its dose of silliness, it's inconsistent like hell and the Kendray stuff nearly made me tune out. However, its light hearted tone, its different time settings and characters like Snart, Rory, Stein and Rip made me a fan.

[Aurora Moon]

I have to say that this was one of the very few Eps where Vandal Savage was actually a creditable threat, although his creditably as a villain was still somewhat tainted by his lovelorn pining for Kendra.

But at least here He managed to come off as a conqueror with a "Conan the barbarian" mentality. You know, that mentality where a guy hasn't made it as an official conqueror of the entire world until he has a kick-ass queen by his side and a harem of swooning females at his feet. As I said before in my headcanon thread before... I tend to head-canon that's the real reason why Vandal Savage was so obsessed with Kendra, and not because he was in love at all.

He believes himself to be the absolute ruler because of his own immortality, so naturally he feels entitled to everything, inducing keeping women as possessions. He was born in an Era where women were seen as nothing but prizes and spoils of war, after all. But, here comes along fate telling Savage that he cannot have this one person because she belongs with somebody else.
spoiled brats and entitled pricks are often obsessed with the things they cannot have, and telling them that they cannot have a thing only makes them want that thing more.

The world however evolved to move on away from that kind of "Conquering Barbarian" mindset... but as Malft from my headcanon thread said:

As the only true immortal, and thus, ruler of everything that dies or decays; Savage didn't give the world permission to move on from him.

But Savage learned the hard way that while he hung on there for a impressively long time, the world will move on without him... no matter how much he tries to keep that conquering barbarian thing relevant in order to keep himself in power.

At least Rip and his team made it that way when they finally changed fate and make it so that the Thangurians wouldn't come to earth after all. And thus any version of the time lords now have no more reasons to help keep Vandal Savage in power...

As for the Hawks... it's just such a shame that they were completely saddled with such a heavy romance plot that they weren't allowed any breathing room to evolve as characters beyond the fated lovers thing.
It's sad when you still see the JLA cartoon version of them as being the superior version even though it's roughly 17 years old now.

[ScarletSpiderMan]

So awesome to FINALLY see Firestorm using his "transmutation" (matter manipulation) powers. I had heard that each season of LoT was going to have a different group of DC characters. I was hoping Firestorm would leave the team and get his own show, but maybe he'll get more time to shine in season 2 now that he's starting to use his entire arsenal.

[TheSecretVampire]

Thanks! Being waiting a while to get this review off my chest. All in all, I'd say that it was a very strong finale. Each character got to shine in their own way, Savage was disposed off in a satisfactory manner and we got a very interesting cliffhanger for season 2.

- They certainly went big as far as Savage's endgame was concerned. I won't try to make sense a lot of the technical stuff (for example, they killed Savage 3 times, but he still exists as an immortal in other time periods, doesn't he?) because the show clearly makes them up as it goes along. It was certainly a fitting end and I guess you can say the people who had dibs on killing Savage (Sara and Mick for Snart and Rip for his family) got the do the honors. I was also satisfied with Rip's storyline in this episode. He was willing to sacrifice himself but after a brief moment of reunion with his family, he got to realize he still has a purpose in life and returned.

- The set up for season 2 is most intriguing. The introduction of the JSA is promising and it might also mean that there's some alternate Earth travelling next season (which I'd love to see). Obviously time travel is still involved, because Hourman arrives in a future version of the Waverider and on future Mick's orders. One of my concerns is what the JSA will look like. The Berlanti-verse has already introduced a number of its members: Wildcat, the Hawks, Mr Terrific and I suspect the Flash will introduce the real Jay Garrick fairly soon.

- I must say that I am beyond ecstatic that season 2 won't be about the Thanagarians and that the Hawks' have left the show. With all due respect to Ciara and Falk, their characters just never clicked with me. As far as trimming the fat goes, the show made the right decision. No complaints about the remaining members of the team and with the right additions, it will have a better look about it next season.

- This episode went on to prove how much better Ray (as well as the show in general) comes across when there's no Kendra/Ray nonsense. I liked his rapport with Mick and there's a lot of promise there for an odd couple friendship.

- Obviously I'm happy that Mick *seems* to be a regular for season 2. Purcell has made the character more fun and purposeful than he had any right to be. His one liners are one of my favorite parts of the show. At the same time, he can be very subtle and realistic when it comes to the emotional stuff, as we saw in the bar scene with Snart.

- Seems like this review has been way too positive. Ranting time. One of the biggest talking points of this episode is the fallout from Sara finding out about Laurel. There's so much contradiction and retconning in this storyline that it's unreal. For starters, the notion that Laurel's fate is set and that there's nothing that can change it is absurd, considering that just last week the team destroyed the Oculus in order for people to be in control of their own destinies. Besides, isn't this a show about time travelers altering timelines and changing people's fates? Plus, in a previous episode we saw Jax actually warn his father about the accident that leds to his death and Rip was fine with it. To the point where he let Jax believe that he may have actually helped save his dad. Why can't Sara at least do that? Go back a couple of months and warn Team Arrow about Andy's betrayal and about how idiotic they were to rebuild Darhk's idol? While I am still upset about the whole Laurel thing, in this instance I am even more annoyed by the double standards this show seems to operate on. No surprise Marc Guggenheim was one of the writers for this episode. The lame excuse as to why Laurel can't be saved reeked of his bs.

- On a similar note, Sara's characterization was baffling in this episode. When she returns home, she sees her dad distraught over her sister's death and she knows that Laurel's killer is still at large. Yet, she opts to leave again because she wants to be a time traveler to honor Laurel. It's good that she will be a part of the team in season 2, but Sara is starting to become the new Henry Allen of the Berlanti-verse: Her character's excuses for leaving feel more and more ludicrous each time.

The last 2 paragraphs aside, it was an enjoyable finale. Giving it a 8/10. As a whole, I give the first season a 6.5/10. It has its dose of silliness, it's inconsistent like hell and the Kendray stuff nearly made me tune out. However, its light hearted tone, its different time settings and characters like Snart, Rory, Stein and Rip made me a fan.

It would make too much sense for Sara to stay and join the fight against Darhk and Felicity would also feel threaten by Sara's presence because maybe Oliver would crawl back to Sara....


As for the Laurel death thing locked in stone.....maybe McG has some real life hatred for KC, who knows. It just strikes me as silly and dumb that of all the ways to bring people back and such, this one with Laurel would cause the most damage to the timeline, that's seems like more crap to me. I am hoping thought that KC gets back on this show as a reformed Black Siren and joins LoT, later in season 2.

[costas22]

It would make too much sense for Sara to stay and join the fight against Darhk and Felicity would also feel threaten by Sara's presence because maybe Oliver would crawl back to Sara....

Too much sense, indeed! Oh I wouldn't worry about Sara interfering with Olicity. Remember that Sara and Oliver broke up in season 2 because Oliver needed someone to harness the light inside him. And that someone of course can only be Felicity.

As for the Laurel death thing locked in stone.....maybe McG has some real life hatred for KC, who knows. It just strikes me as silly and dumb that of all the ways to bring people back and such, this one with Laurel would cause the most damage to the timeline, that's seems like more crap to me. I am hoping thought that KC gets back on this show as a reformed Black Siren and joins LoT, later in season 2.

Don't know about hatred, but I do find it weird that Snart gets killed off but Wentworth Miller remains a regular on the Berlanti shows, whereas Laurel gets killed off and Katie Cassidy is gone from the Berlanti-verse altogether (except for her Flash cameo and lending her voice for Vixen). As an outsider, it looks to me like they were determined to cut ties with Cassidy. If it was her decision to leave Arrow, they would have said so. Of course that doesn't mean she won't appear as Black Siren or as past versions of Laurel here and there, but I doubt we will see her more than 2-3 times next season on Arrow, Flash and LoT.

[President_Luthor]

I don't have much to add. It was a fun finale. Good in some parts, lots of action.

I see the departure of the Hawks and Savage as maybe the show's recognition that they didn't handle them all that well. How could they turn such iconic DC superheroes and a so-called super-villain into bland and boring bench warmers? The moment Kendra became caught up in the usual love interest nonsense, it was only a matter of time before she and Carter would pay the price development-wise. And from the sounds of it, TPTB were hashing out S2 plot lines and they came up empty for Kendra and Carter, leading to writing them off. News alert: they've been coming up empty on Kendra and Carter this whole season. Savage too, since they couldn't resist giving him a Kendra obsession too. They never quite sold that he was the most formidable enemy they ever had. Not sad that they killed him three times in the finale, and with the arc they gave him his "best before" date was already on the horizon. Congrats, Shado-losing Slade and Olicity-shipping Ra's Al Ghul ... even weakened, you're still cooler than Savage. He simply could not catch a break, either with Kendra or with the writers.

I feel bad for the actors, not their fault at all, it's hard to excel when they've been given next-to-nothing in character development. It's the writing -- it needed work this season, it will need more next season. Sara and Ray had the advantage of being known in previous series, but I don't know how much help it was for them on LoT. They too have had hit-and-miss moments as characters.

LoT is still a bit different from either Arrow or Flash, I'll give them that. And if they use the JSA properly it could make for a good S2. I'm hoping that their having to write out the Hawks and Savage will be a reminder to them that they'll need to step up their game in plots, characters etc. in S2.

[TheSecretVampire]

I don't have much to add. It was a fun finale. Good in some parts, lots of action.

I see the departure of the Hawks and Savage as maybe the show's recognition that they didn't handle them all that well. How could they turn such iconic DC superheroes and a so-called super-villain into bland and boring bench warmers? The moment Kendra became caught up in the usual love interest nonsense, it was only a matter of time before she and Carter would pay the price development-wise. And from the sounds of it, TPTB were hashing out S2 plot lines and they came up empty for Kendra and Carter, leading to writing them off. News alert: they've been coming up empty on Kendra and Carter this whole season. Savage too, since they couldn't resist giving him a Kendra obsession too. They never quite sold that he was the most formidable enemy they ever had. Not sad that they killed him three times in the finale, and with the arc they gave him his "best before" date was already on the horizon. Congrats, Shado-losing Slade and Olicity-shipping Ra's Al Ghul ... even weakened, you're still cooler than Savage. He simply could not catch a break, either with Kendra or with the writers.

I feel bad for the actors, not their fault at all, it's hard to excel when they've been given next-to-nothing in character development. It's the writing -- it needed work this season, it will need more next season. Sara and Ray had the advantage of being known in previous series, but I don't know how much help it was for them on LoT. They too have had hit-and-miss moments as characters.

LoT is still a bit different from either Arrow or Flash, I'll give them that. And if they use the JSA properly it could make for a good S2. I'm hoping that their having to write out the Hawks and Savage will be a reminder to them that they'll need to step up their game in plots, characters etc. in S2.

Rip's word of mouth about how deadly Savage was more of the threat then seeing with our own eyes what Savage did to the Legends throughout the season.....I mean, almost everytime the Legends went up against Savage, they owned him all but 2 times, one where Savage killed Carter in episode 2 and another where Savage owned Ray in episode 14....that's it. The rest of the time Savage was easily defeated, especially in the season finale. Mick is a good fighter, but his fight with Savage was a cakewalk. Sara is a great fighter, but her fight with Savage was a cakewalk, too. In my eyes, this portrayal of Vandal Savage was piss poor and I really feel bad for the actor because I thought he was good with the material handed to him, but this was just a bad rep of Vandal Savage. From his origins story to the final product, it all fell flat and not accurate at all.

[JDBentz]

Here's my contribution. Had it up on my blog already and shared a portion in the Arrow forum:

This is the second time in as many years I’ve been disappointed in the finale of a DC TV series. Last year was the debacle that was Arrow’s third season finale, in which a lot of character traits and development was ignored in order to force the ending they desired. It shouldn’t surprise me that Marc Guggenheim’s involvement in Legends of Tomorrow has spelled the same fate for this show’s finale.

The contents of the finale focused on the battle with Vandal Savage across three time periods was the best part of the story of this episode, and I enjoyed the fact that everyone had a chance to beat the crap out of Savage in one way or another. Mick Rory, Sara Lance, and a combination of Kendra Saunders and Rip Hunter killing him after they used his own plan against him and rendered him mortal was great.

For the most part, the characters were allowed to develop and show their development in this episode. The main point to the contrary, in this case, being Sara Lance. She was established early on in the series, and even in recent episodes, as being very committed to her family. Despite this, she accepts Rip’s word that her presence at Iron Heights would not save her sister, but doom both Lance sisters and their father to death at the hands of Damien Darhk (the how of this is left out completely, unsurprising since this is more Guggenheim shoe-horning in his desired outcome rather than allowing anything to mess up his wet dream fantasies).

Later on, once the mission is over, and in a scene with heavy spoken exposition, she monologues to her father about how she should stay and help them fight Darhk, honor Laurel, etc., but in the end chooses to go back on the Waverider. This is in direct contradiction to how she reacted to the ruin of Star City and the discovery that everyone but Oliver was dead in 2046. Based on that sequence, and every sequence since when it comes to Star City and her family, we were led to believe she would rejoin Team Arrow. That’s what she would do if she were allowed to follow her character arc.

Can’t say I’m unhappy to see the Hawks go. Neither Kendra nor Carter were truly spectacular characters.

Finally, the ending. Unless the guy comes from the future, then I can only assume that they’ve now decided to retcon their own canon AGAIN and decide that, yes, superheroes have existed prior to the Arrow and the Flash. I shouldn’t be surprised, I really shouldn’t, but I am. I keep hoping for someone to rein in Guggenheim and his stupidity but I guess it just won’t be happening.

All in all, a decent episode, but despite its spectacular main story, the retconning of their own canon and forcing an ending they desire instead of letting the story of a character play out appropriately has given this episode a 7/10.

[nate-dog1701d]

I may need to watch that part again, but what exactly happened after Rip time traveled back from the sun? Everyone was aware that he was going to fly the meteorite into the sun, I think. After his time jump, we saw that discussion again, and time seemed to skip. I didn't quite follow.