Loved It? Hated It? What did you think of "Destiny?"

[KSiteTV]

What did you think?

[Aurora Moon]

Actually one of their best eps ever. They explained why the crew seemed so incompetent at their job, etc... and it turns out that the Time lords were evil guys who manipulated every one of them from behind the scenes. It all made so much sense that I'm still going "oohhh... so that's why they did this or that" when I think back on the past scenes where they screwed up.

They made everything seem like it was destined from the start, when none of it really were. It was just the Time Lords ****ing with them.

[JDBentz]

The Essence of Heroism Defies Fate

The second-to-last episodes of any series that has a serialized story are hectic, heart-pounding, and contain events that are intended to alter the course of the world they inhabit. Legends of Tomorrow’s fifteenth episode succeeds in this regard, in a stunning fashion that will leave more than a few dropped jaws and horrified cries. This seems to be the Arrowverse’s week for jaw-dropping events across all three of its shows.

We pick up where we left off, with most of the team now imprisoned the Time Masters, who have been revealed to have joined forces with Vandal Savage. Very little time passes before Mick Rory and Kendra Saunders are taken, leaving Ray Palmer to be the sole voice of hope in the prison block as both Rip Hunter and Dr. Martin Stein are resigned to dying. Sara Lance and Leonard Snart have managed to evade capture, but find themselves at odds as Sara is determined to save the team while Leonard wants to leave. Finally, Jefferson Jackson (Jax) arrives back in 2016 on the same night they were given the offer, and intercedes the younger (so to speak) Dr. Stein in a very Back to the Future kind of way.

Heatwave/Chronos: Mick Rory shows the growth he has had as a character and person in this episode, as he latches onto not vengeance, but the care he has for the team in his effort to keep his mind when the Time Masters attempt to change him back into Chronos. But he shows he’s no softie as he fulfills the promise he made to the Time Master in charge and crushes his skull with his boot, and later tells Ray to never tell anyone what he said about caring about the team.

Firestorm: Jax’s interactions with the earlier Dr. Stein show just how different the relationship between the two is when it comes to the time they’ve spent fighting Savage. Dr. Stein believed he was dealing with the same kind of person he had been dealing with, while Jax had grown used to ‘Gray’ and they were now true partners as Firestorm. The greeting the two give one another once Jax comes in for the rescue at the Oculus was a nice touch and showed the growth of the characters.

Rip Hunter: This was probably the most jarring time for Rip as he has discovered the awful truth that not only are the Time Masters in league with Savage, but believe him to be the best hope for the world ten years after he kills Rip’s family, due to an alien invasion. Rip’s questions about free will being ripped to shreds and the claim that there is only destiny becomes the driving force of the episode, as the team (and Rip himself) make the choice to take back their own fate. However, Rip has failed in his primary quest: to save his family.

Hawkgirl: Kendra Saunders has faced quite a lot of criticism, from me especially, since I got tired of hearing the “such-and-such time ago, I was a barista, now I’m blah blah blah” line almost every damned episode. However, this episode showed her own growth as she first pled with Savage to spare Rip’s family, and then when they learned the Time Masters would no longer be able to aid Savage, mocking him despite being at his mercy. I look forward to seeing how things play in the finale next week.

White Canary: Sara Lance has grown quite a bit, as I’ve said in a past review, and it again shows in this episode. She showed humor, loyalty, anger, and grief throughout this episode as she joked with Snart, chose to save the team, got in Snart’s face over his desire to abandon them, and finally grief over those final moments. It is a sad fact that a lot of the heroes on these shows are forged with the fires of grief and Sara Lance is no different.

The Atom: It is only Brandon Routh’s charm and puppy-dog like antics that keep people from calling Ray Palmer an arrogant, conceited man (one of the few things I cheered about in Season 3 of Arrow was Felicity giving Ray a few lessons in humility). This series began with him liking the idea of being a legend, and he latched onto Sara’s suggestion in the first half of the pilot that they could change their own destiny when they discovered that in Rip’s future, they’re nobodies. While Ray’s words at the Oculus would imply he is still very much the same, the context is very different. He knows there’s a possibility what he does will never be known, but if he can save the world from being led around like puppets, he’ll do so.

Captain Cold: Finally, the character that has grown quite a bit since he was first introduced in The Flash Season 1, Episode 4. Leonard Snart was a calculating thief and a ruthless criminal, killing underlings who turned on him, and then he began playing games with the Flash. Slowly, over time, his and the Flash’s games turned more into lessons with them, as they each took something from their encounters. That led to Snart using subterfuge to get Mick to join him on the Waverider. Snart has continually elevated throughout the season to be more heroic, and perhaps that should have been a caution for viewers, but this was the one time death hasn’t been advertised (at least not to my knowledge). Snart’s death in the place of either Mick or Ray was a shock, and I can imagine the #CaptainCanary shippers are in outrage. Assuming he doesn’t turn up alive in the next episode, I shudder to think how Mick or whoever is going to explain to Lisa that her brother died.

The kiss teased in the trailer ended up being a farewell kiss from Sara to Snart, so it was a bittersweet one.

The destruction of the Oculus changed the Arrowverse itself. Now the only challenge those who change time face is time itself. For those who write fanfiction, it certainly provides some nice fertile ground. For the shows themselves, it will be interesting to see how things play out.

All in all, this was an excellent episode and I give it full marks: 10/10. I look forward to seeing the finale next week, though it’s gonna be hard as Sara is going to finally learn about her older sister’s murder.

[costas22]

A huge improvement on last week's episode. Hate using the term, but it was truly a game changing episode and one that set up the finale fairly well. Some thoughts:

- The Oculus twist is an interesting one. You can tell they added that element late in the game because they realized how incompetent the team looked thoughout the season. At least this way, they can say that the team was being manipulated to fail. It is a retcon to a degree, but at least it makes the season make more sense. All in all, I found the stuff about the Time Masters manipulating time and being in league with Savage for their own reasons very interesting. The show should have taken place on the Vanishing Point for more episodes than just 2, imo.

-My theory on Rip's storyline all along was that he wouldn't be able to save his family, which is what ended up happening. And it's probably for the best because the alternative would have opened a nasty can of worms. Will be intersting to see where he goes from here considering his family is dead for good and the body he swore to protect proved to be evil.

- Not much on the Hawks front and that was a plus.

- Notice how much better Ray is written when he doesn't share scenes with Kendra? He was back to being heroic and the beacon of hope in this episode. Loved his scenes with Rory, as I always do.

- Jax's storyline was confusing. So he's gone back to 2016. Ok. Why is he able to find Martin in 2016? I thought the team was removed from any timeline when they kidnapped their baby selves? Or has the show forgotten all about that storyline?

- Obviously the big development is Snart's sacrifice. It was a fitting end for him in a way and the Captain Canary stuff was kept to a bare minimum (thank Goodness!). However, I read Berlanti's interview afterwards and he's already going on about Snart becoming a Berlanti-verse regular (but not a LoT regular anymore) who will appear on Legends and The Flash. Granted, he will probably be a past version of Snart, Snart from another Earth or a time remnant (the new plot device), but isn't it hard to feel sad about a character's death when you already know you'll be seeing more of him in some form? I just hope it doesn't mean Snart as we know him here actually survived. Because, you know, it will make me start wondering why only Laurel had to die for good on these shows.

- Unlike Snart, hopefully Mick will remain a member of the team next season. He's grown so much into his role, that imo he's more than just Snart's partner now. I guess we'll have to wait and see how busy both Miller and Purcell are with Prison Break...

- Poor Sara. She loses Snart just when she was feeling whatever it is she was feeling for him and next week she finds out about Laurel.

[protege]

I agree with you about mick; he was someone i wasn't planning to like, but he grew on me. I thought the chronos thing was a waste of time, though. I'n not going to watch the finale until i learn whether or not he'll still be on the team next season, and what the overall mission is. I have a bad feeling it's going to be hawk- centric again.

[President_Luthor]

Overall, a really good ep. with plenty of unexpected twists (Rip got the biggest shock of all -- that they were all being played), a few red herrings thrown it (they kept us guessing who was going to die) and the team turning the tables on the time masters and throwing a wrench into Savage's schemes. When they dial down the melodrama, we get solid eps like this. This is the sort of adventure I was expecting from LoT.

It sounds like Thanagarians will be playing a bigger role next season. Unfortunately this also means the Kendra/Carter/Savage stuff won't be going anywhere.

Yeah, I think they forgot about the impact of their baby selves being removed from the timeline.

Poor Sara. She gets the double whammy of losing Snart (they made great partners, even as rogue anti-hero ones) and soon facing the fallout of Laurel's death.

I'm sad about Snart's exit, any way we cut it it's a loss to the series, but I'm glad he went out a hero. Sometimes the best heroes are the ones who don't want the glory. That was true self-sacrifice.

A lot of the stuff re: status of Snart and Mick in the DCTV universe depends on how well that Prison Break reboot goes. They threw a bone to the Captain Canary shippers, but it was a small one ... when he was literally at death's door.

Even if the Oculus is gone, I have to wonder if they will stop worrying about meddling in whatever timelines they now enter. I think that there will still be ramifications for their own meddling, even if the Time Masters can't mess with time directly any longer.

[zibroweed]

I wondered where on earth the writers would go once they finally dealt with Vandal Savage. I guess they have given themselves another good option weather it's for next season or later. I wonder if the alien invaders will have their own set of time fiends. It's always a little sad in a movie or show when a human has to die because no one was carrying a decent clamp. If only Ray's glove could have been modified to hold down that "fail-safe" (though I realise that would ruin the whole self sacrifice thing they were going for, it still bugs me when someone has to stay behind to apply a little pressure to a button.) I kind-of hope they find some silly excuse to bring old Snart back. I like that character

[Carmine-Infantino]

Overall, a really good ep. with plenty of unexpected twists (Rip got the biggest shock of all -- that they were all being played), a few red herrings thrown it (they kept us guessing who was going to die) and the team turning the tables on the time masters and throwing a wrench into Savage's schemes. When they dial down the melodrama, we get solid eps like this. This is the sort of adventure I was expecting from LoT.

It sounds like Thanagarians will be playing a bigger role next season. Unfortunately this also means the Kendra/Carter/Savage stuff won't be going anywhere.

Yeah, I think they forgot about the impact of their baby selves being removed from the timeline.

Poor Sara. She gets the double whammy of losing Snart (they made great partners, even as rogue anti-hero ones) and soon facing the fallout of Laurel's death.

I'm sad about Snart's exit, any way we cut it it's a loss to the series, but I'm glad he went out a hero. Sometimes the best heroes are the ones who don't want the glory. That was true self-sacrifice.

A lot of the stuff re: status of Snart and Mick in the DCTV universe depends on how well that Prison Break reboot goes. They threw a bone to the Captain Canary shippers, but it was a small one ... when he was literally at death's door.

Even if the Oculus is gone, I have to wonder if they will stop worrying about meddling in whatever timelines they now enter. I think that there will still be ramifications for their own meddling, even if the Time Masters can't mess with time directly any longer.

Miller will be back next season, he has a contract that allows him to appear as a series regular on all of the Berlantiverse shows, so expect him to pop up on Flash and LoT next year, with the possibility of Arrow and Supergirl

[Aurora Moon]

re-watched this ep online, and I couldn't help but laugh at how Mick was acting at times. He was acting like a Tsundere.... which is an anime trope where somebody acts cold towards everyone but secretly likes them.

Mick: "Don't assume that I like you or anything because I saved you! Dummy.... *blushes*"

Mick: "Don't get me wrong, It's not like I like the team or anything. I'm only doing this for myself..."

Mick: "It's not like I liked Snart or anything! But still, I want to avenge his death... "

As an anime fan I couldn't help but start picturing him as an animated tsundere guy, so that's why I found it kind of funny.

[Amarice]

Redemption Equals Death trope - activated. Still, they managed to not make it that obvious in this episode.

Overall I liked it - it was much better than 1x14 - a good mix of tropes, mainly related to the team, although it sucks that Cold is gone. I know, the actor will still appear in the Flarrowverse, but still. There was nice Jeff-Stein moment, family-angst for Rip (also Nothing Has Sense, Everything Was Determined From The Start which nicely explains all plot holes ), Ray was again fun character once he was free from that idiotic romance, and Mick was fun too - he really grew on me during the course of the series. We avoided ColdCanary fortunately, still see Sara's and Snart's relationship to be a bromance more than anything else. The amount of Savage and Hawks was reduced to a minimum fortunately.

Interesting foreshadowing with Thanagarians - liked those episodes in JL tv show, but well, when one compares Hawkgirl in "Legends" to the one in that animation there is just no comparison unfortunately.

[protege]

I finally watched it, knowing how it ends, and once again, the episode mvp was mick, although closely followed by jax/stein. I like how they've grown as partners throughout this adventure, and how mick and jax have gotten smarter as well. One thing I thought was over the top, was jax's last minute save of the team in the jump ship. I just found it a little unneeded.