Loved It? Hated It? What did you think of "Sins of the Father?"

[Shelby Kent]

we are all viewers with different likes and dislikes. We may not agree with all of them, but we are going to have them. It's a review thread and there are always going to be diverging opinions. Just speaking as an average viewer, I'm not going to be a branch of the WB or The CW PR or marketing department and praise and promote everything they do, flawed or not. I'd like to think I don't criticize the show for the sake of just doing it. Usually it's due to something tangible like plot, story, characterization -- all fair game in a review in my books.

Nicely said! One can read this book: "A Kim Jong-Il Production: The extraordinary true story of a kidnapped filmmaker, his star actress, and a young dictator's rise to power" by Paul Fischer, and it will provide fresh appreciation anew for how lucky we are to live in countries and to have access to an internet that allow us to express our critiques, complaints, praise and opinions/perspectives in general with regard to TV shows/films (among other types of art). Not to mention the fact that we are not forced to watch only state-sponsored propaganda TV/films and to recite scripted lines of praise about said-films (which is not to say that N. Koreans don't have even bigger problems than lack of artistic freedom....)

Since I've cut back on Arrow episodes I like to cruise around several discussion board sites to get a better feel for an ep (to help me decide if I want to watch a particular ep...plus, it's kind of interesting from a sociological perspective). With regard to this ep., I've seen mixed responses. The board that seems to be more pro-Felicity/Olicity had major problems with the fight scenes and the fact that Malcolm is roaming around free, and they wished for more Felicity/Olicity. The board that seems to be more anti-Felicity/Olicity actually had a lot of the same complaints that the pro-F/O site had except of course they did not wish for more F/O. The board that seems to be more neutral seemed to have about 50/50 with regard to positive reviews/complaints -- but again, the complaints centered around the fight scenes and the fact that Malcolm is walking around; whereas a number of people were very happy with the show overall.

Possibly a sub-complaint (related to the fighting scene complaints) is that quite a lot of people really wanted to see Nyssa and Malcolm face off and were ticked off that Nyssa would ask Oliver to do her fighting for her.

IMO quite a few of the negative comments (ie "complaints") out there are articulate and if you take the time to read them, you can see that the poster is not just "bashing" but is expressing a particular perspective and explaining why. Sure, we all like to have our views validated but unless one has ESP I believe it's a bit dismissive to declare that those who do not agree with one's particular interpretation/perspective are merely complaining for the sake of complaining. But then again, if they are: so what?

[JDBentz]

*raised eyebrows* You know, I have watched the fight sequence several times now.... Nyssa does not ask Oliver to fight for her. In fact, she's against it. Its when he gives her a reasoned argument that she considers it and acquiesces to his request to fight for her. Something tells me she knew he had realized a third option and manipulated the entire thing.

[BkWurm1]

*raised eyebrows* You know, I have watched the fight sequence several times now.... Nyssa does not ask Oliver to fight for her. In fact, she's against it. Its when he gives her a reasoned argument that she considers it and acquiesces to his request to fight for her. Something tells me she knew he had realized a third option and manipulated the entire thing.

Sure on the rooftop she says she's against ever having anyone fight her battles for her but at the beginning of the episode Oliver told her no, he wasn't going to fight her battler for her (aka kill Malcolm) and she said oh if you want to save your sister you are, so contradiction.

But yes, I agree that she realized that Oliver had something planned up his sleeve this final time around.

[BkWurm1]

It may even be the reason Ollie finally fesses up to Felicity, now that his son is in peril.

[SPOILER]Sadly the show’s producers have said that nope, Oliver will not be the one to tell her first. They said that in multiple interviews right after the crossover. [/SPOILER] Not sure if it's really counted as a spoiler since it was in a general interview and not treated like a spoiler, more a story direction but tagged just in case.

Bkwurm1: the jail thing? Really? It has already been covered before that no prison can hold a member of the League if they don't wish to be there. Nyssa, whenever she's been a prisoner of Team Arrow, has remained where she was willingly. Same in Nanda Parbat; she was contemplating how to get her revenge on Malcolm and bring the League back under the control of her family.

I don't think they’ve ever said that LoA members can’t be held prisoner, just Malcolm claiming that no prison can hold him and they never even tested his claim. Iron Heights can now even contain meta humans but not a unpowered mortal? Don’t buy it and the team (and the show) looks foolish for not even talking about it as an option. At the very least it's time to stop hiding from the world that MM is alive.

Then again, it's not like MM is trying hard to hide. That fight on the top of a well lit roof top was pretty public. Ever building around them had windows looking down at them. A random pair of binoculars and they'd even ID their Mayoral candidate and the CEO of Palmer Tech.

[JDBentz]

[SPOILER]Sadly the show’s producers have said that nope, Oliver will not be the one to tell her first. They said that in multiple interviews right after the crossover. [/SPOILER] Not sure if it's really counted as a spoiler since it was in a general interview and not treated like a spoiler, more a story direction but tagged just in case.



I don't think they’ve ever said that LoA members can’t be held prisoner, just Malcolm claiming that no prison can hold him and they never even tested his claim. Iron Heights can now even contain meta humans but not a unpowered mortal? Don’t buy it and the team (and the show) looks foolish for not even talking about it as an option. At the very least it's time to stop hiding from the world that MM is alive.

Then again, it's not like MM is trying hard to hide. That fight on the top of a well lit roof top was pretty public. Ever building around them had windows looking down at them. A random pair of binoculars and they'd even ID their Mayoral candidate and the CEO of Palmer Tech.

On the first bit- Oh, that is NOT gonna end well....

On the second: true enough.

On the third bit: *snickering* I'm picturing how the news would have spun that....

[evaba]

@JD, you should be glad that you're not a regular on the reddit/imdb forums, because there the posters are complaining non-stop about everything! I've done my fair share of complaining, but I'm starting to reconcile myself with the fact that "Arrow" will never return to its former glory, and accept the new season on its own terms. I lower my expectations and try to enjoy the episodes the best way I can. I thought that the latest ep was enjoyable, mainly because there was some development, and because Laurel got some good scenes and some more screen time. I still find the Olicity scenes bland and uninteresting, but at least they don't annoy me as much as the Felicity shilling we had in some recent eps.

In general I find it easier to accept the dip in quality if you regard "Arrow" as just another show, rather than THE favourite show. I have Netflix now, and I'm getting into some really good shows....and then there is always the new "Daredevil" season in March!

[BkWurm1]

@JD, you should be glad that you're not a regular on the reddit/imdb forums, because there the posters are complaining non-stop about everything

Some places are best avoided. I hate the complete lack of structure n the forums not to mention the many trolls.. The forums seem set up only for comments, not real discussion.

[dreamsofnever]

I know it can be frustrating to see nothing but complaints when you're enjoying the show. I've been trying not to comment in the episode review forums and I even skipped the first midseason premiere and the episode after that because I knew I wasn't going to enjoy them.

That said, I did really enjoy this episode. I agree with just about everyone else that Oliver's stubbornness when it comes to protecting Malcolm is ridiculous but I like that they actually showed Oliver wanting to find an option that didn't mean killing anyone. I'm a sucker for superheroes who believe that there's another way and find it. However, knowing that it will most likely bite him in the ass tempers my excitement at that a bit.

And I also didn't like that the show has set Nyssa up to the point where she couldn't beat Malcolm or even Oliver.

Those beefs aside, the episode had some nice moments between just about everyone. I'm a huge fan of the Laurel/Nyssa friendship and I was glad to see them interacting and repairing the rift between them a bit. I was also glad to see Nyssa making what she believed was the right choice in dissolving the League. Now, I have to think that releasing that many trained assassins into the world might not be the best idea in the long run, but I like that her heart was in the right place and she had the chance to choose to be different from her father.

This was a rare episode where I actually liked and could sympathize with Oliver too. So that was nice.

And I didn't mind the subplot with Felicity and her father. I thought that it was a nice emotional arc for her.

The flashbacks were lackluster though. It's a shame that they lost their way with them because I feel like the flashbacks in season one and two really added to the story and Oliver's (and Sara's) character development, but this year especially is just not a lot happening and a weird forced potential romance and I have a hard time seeing how the Oliver of these flashbacks will become the man he was at the start of season one over the course of a year and a half.

I hope that Arrow is getting back on track. I'm still going to pick and choose which episodes I watch moving forward, but I'd like to be able to get back to enjoying it again every week and not just on weeks that are low on Olicity melodrama and high on Thea and Laurel scenes.