Is Clark obligated to be honest?

[laurarawlins]

Had Lex been a real friend to Clark instead of pretending to be his friend just get close to his secret. Would Clark be able to be honest with him?

If Clark's friendship was so important to Lex like he claims, then why can't he just let go of his need to know everything? and just respect Clark's privacy? and why didn't he do that?

What was more important to lex? finding out Clark's secret? or having Clark's friendship? or both having Clark's friendship and finding out his secret?

If all Lex ever wanted was to gain Clark's trust, then would it be better if Lex had tried to earn Clark's trust? rather than buying his trust with flashy gifts?

Was Clark right or wrong in keeping his secret from Lex?

Did Clark betray Lex by keeping his secret from him? Or did Lex betray Clark by investigating his secret behind his back?

Would Lex have changed for the better instead of for the worse if he still had Clark's friendship? had Clark not pushed him away?

If Lex had been more willing to go out of his way to support Clark and let Clark tell him his secret when he was ready had he been more patient with him and had he not pushed so hard, would Clark be willing to entrust him his secret?

Is Clark obligated to be honest with Lex?

If Lex had let down his guard and confided in Clark more and reached out to Clark, would Clark had done more to help guide him from the allure of the dark side? had he not been freezing him out?

If Lex wanted everything that Clark had would it be better if Lex had tried harder to hold on to Clark's friendship and cut ties with Lionel? had he not given into Lionel's influence?

If Jonathan Kent had given Lex a chance and had not judged him so harshly or disrespected him or mistreated him. had Lex not sabotaged any faith that Jonathan ever had in him despite his distrust in him or his doubts about him, would things be different between Lex and Clark? and would that prevent Lex from going to the dark side?

Had Lionel been more of a loving father to Lex and Lex was more of a model son like Clark, would things be different between Lex and Lionel? and would that help Lex change for the better?

if Lex had took responsibility for his own actions and choices instead of blaming the world for his evil actions, would Lex blame himself for what he did to himself? or will he still blame other people for his actions?

If Lex had trusted clark with his secrets, would Clark trust Lex with his secret?

If Lex had been more honest with Clark, would Clark be more honest with Lex?

Instead of Clark always going to Lex for help, wouldn't be nice for once if Lex had went to Clark for help? and would Clark offer Lex his help? if Lex had asked him for his help?

Would Clark and Lex still be friends if hadn't been for their affections for the Lananite getting in the way of their friendship?

what are Clark's and Lex's core values? and how do they differ from each other?

Your thoughts

[Dagenspear]

Clark is obligated to be honest when the truth can help people. And not in the way that it will help Lex not lie or fall to becoming a bad guy. But because of what danger they could be put in if they don't have the truth.

God bless you! God bless everyone!

[Aurora Moon]

What Dagenspear said. regarding the poll, I have to say it's a mixture of the two though.

Think about it, Clark has very good reasons to keep his secrets. After all, we did see what would happen if the wrong kind of people ever found out. Sometimes being honest can actually put people around him at risk! Look what happened with Pete and Hamilton the meteorologist guy. Or when Lana died in the accident when Lex was chasing after her.

Of course, Clark also needed to learn that keeping secrets can also put people at risk too... but, It can be hard to know when was the right time to be honest, or knowing whenever it would help the person or not.

It's kind of easy to say in hindsight that there was all those times when Clark should had been honest..... but how was Clark to know that there was a right and a wrong time to be (dis)honest??

I think Lex understood that better than Clark did though. I think Lex might had accepted the situation more had Clark had told him straight up: "Yes, there's something going on here. But I can't tell you. Not because I don't trust you, but because I made a promise to my parents that I wouldn't ever tell anybody until I was an adult. Please don't press any more, okay?"
This way Lex would be somewhat calmed by the fact that Clark did trust him, but couldn't tell him for good reasons. He does know a few things about family secrets and how it could easily ruin a whole family if it ever got out, after all.

Would this stop Lex from trying to find out what it is? Probably not. But I think he would take far less risks or do less stupid things trying to find out Clark's secret.

[laurarawlins]

A 3rd option for the poll

Please vote. I want to know what people think of my poll. I should have put a 3rd option onto this poll, but I'm sorry that I didn't and I don't know how to fix it so there could be a 3rd option on this poll, again my apologies. But there is a 3rd option and the 3rd option is Clark and lex both betrayed each other: for both of their secrets and lies to each other, but for different reasons.

[DJ Doena]

Everybody lies. - Gregory House, M.D.

Clark's main problem (on the other hand: that's a good thing) is that he is so uncomfortable lying. When people actually fall for his lies then it's usually because they didn't really care in the first place. The second they actually listen to his words and are interested in his answer they realize he's evasive and/or not fully honest.

Unsuprisingly, people don't like being lied to. But we do it every day. Every single one of us. We rarely do it because we actually have to hide something important. Mostly we do it to keep a conversation social and/or not hurt someone else's feelings ("Your new blouse looks lovely"). Otherwise we'd all be Sheldon Coopers.

Clark has an actual real reason to keep his secret. It's not even that important that he's an alien, the powers part alone suffices. You just need to look at people like Dr. Garner or Van McNulty to understand that.

The main fault of all the characters lies somewhere else: They all keep secrets from one another, sometimes important secrets. But they will always get upset when others keep secrets from them. Clark and Jonathan are no exceptions to this. Jon taught his son to become a bearer of secret but will also get upset when Clark doesn't tell HIM everything. And Clark's upset with Chloe everytime Chloe knew something about Lana's relationship status and didn't share it with him.

That's not how it works in the real world. When you keep secrets for a living, you will develop an understanding for other people who are not completely open about everything because you can see yourself in them. That's how empathy works.

What personally grates me the most is when people start badgering Clark for keeping secrets directly after he just saved their lives! Like Lex with the Porsche crash and Lana with the Tornado. In Clark's version of the story he saved Lex anyway because he dived in after him. And with Lana he found her by the side of the road. But if it's true what they assume (which we know it is) then they should be even more grateful to him. Both would be dead by the end of season one if it weren't for him. But is this what they do? Of course not. They resent him for not admitting he saved their lives by using mysterious powers. Really guys?

[Dagenspear]

Everybody lies. - Gregory House, M.D.

Clark's main problem (on the other hand: that's a good thing) is that he is so uncomfortable lying. When people actually fall for his lies then it's usually because they didn't really care in the first place. The second they actually listen to his words and are interested in his answer they realize he's evasive and/or not fully honest.

Unsuprisingly, people don't like being lied to. But we do it every day. Every single one of us. We rarely do it because we actually have to hide something important. Mostly we do it to keep a conversation social and/or not hurt someone else's feelings ("Your new blouse looks lovely"). Otherwise we'd all be Sheldon Coopers.

Clark has an actual real reason to keep his secret. It's not even that important that he's an alien, the powers part alone suffices. You just need to look at people like Dr. Garner or Van McNulty to understand that.

The main fault of all the characters lies somewhere else: They all keep secrets from one another, sometimes important secrets. But they will always get upset when others keep secrets from them. Clark and Jonathan are no exceptions to this. Jon taught his son to become a bearer of secret but will also get upset when Clark doesn't tell HIM everything. And Clark's upset with Chloe everytime Chloe knew something about Lana's relationship status and didn't share it with him.

That's not how it works in the real world. When you keep secrets for a living, you will develop an understanding for other people who are not completely open about everything because you can see yourself in them. That's how empathy works.

What personally grates me the most is when people start badgering Clark for keeping secrets directly after he just saved their lives! Like Lex with the Porsche crash and Lana with the Tornado. In Clark's version of the story he saved Lex anyway because he dived in after him. And with Lana he found her by the side of the road. But if it's true what they assume (which we know it is) then they should be even more grateful to him. Both would be dead by the end of season one if it weren't for him. But is this what they do? Of course not. They resent him for not admitting he saved their lives by using mysterious powers. Really guys?

Lana actually didn't resent Clark for that lie. She was pretty willing to get with him regardless of it afterwards. She only started to resent him when he started using his lies to create distance between them. She didn't like the lie, but she didn't take issue with him really for them when he started lying about his feelings. And Lana connected his lies about his feelings with his lies about his powers. For Lana it was important that Clark trust her with everything so they could have the intimacy that she wanted them to have. Clark often felt the same, but because he had the secret he usually just pulled away fully, instead of trying to tell the truth, because he was afraid of how she'd react, at least early on. With Lex, he was pretty untrusting and wanted the truth so he could feel on equal ground with Clark. Lex feels that lies and subterfuge are used against people who are lesser and Lex always wanted to be on the Kent's level, to be loved, respected and treated like a member of the family. To be honest, Lex knows that Clark has powers. And Clark knows that Lex knows, so Clark's commitment to lying in that situation is pointless and kinda annoying. It's kinda gaslighting at certain points, where Clark actively tells them that what they saw is false. Him lying to protect himself is fine though. He's entitled to protect himself. He's not entitled to lie and keep the truth from people though when that information can help, protect or keep someone safe.

God bless you! God bless everyone!

[Aurora Moon]

Everybody lies. - Gregory House, M.D.

Clark's main problem (on the other hand: that's a good thing) is that he is so uncomfortable lying. When people actually fall for his lies then it's usually because they didn't really care in the first place. The second they actually listen to his words and are interested in his answer they realize he's evasive and/or not fully honest.

Unsuprisingly, people don't like being lied to. But we do it every day. Every single one of us. We rarely do it because we actually have to hide something important. Mostly we do it to keep a conversation social and/or not hurt someone else's feelings ("Your new blouse looks lovely"). Otherwise we'd all be Sheldon Coopers.

Clark has an actual real reason to keep his secret. It's not even that important that he's an alien, the powers part alone suffices. You just need to look at people like Dr. Garner or Van McNulty to understand that.

The main fault of all the characters lies somewhere else: They all keep secrets from one another, sometimes important secrets. But they will always get upset when others keep secrets from them. Clark and Jonathan are no exceptions to this. Jon taught his son to become a bearer of secret but will also get upset when Clark doesn't tell HIM everything. And Clark's upset with Chloe everytime Chloe knew something about Lana's relationship status and didn't share it with him.

That's not how it works in the real world. When you keep secrets for a living, you will develop an understanding for other people who are not completely open about everything because you can see yourself in them. That's how empathy works.

What personally grates me the most is when people start badgering Clark for keeping secrets directly after he just saved their lives! Like Lex with the Porsche crash and Lana with the Tornado. In Clark's version of the story he saved Lex anyway because he dived in after him. And with Lana he found her by the side of the road. But if it's true what they assume (which we know it is) then they should be even more grateful to him. Both would be dead by the end of season one if it weren't for him. But is this what they do? Of course not. They resent him for not admitting he saved their lives by using mysterious powers. Really guys?

I have to agree with that.

I often wished at times that people on the show would just quietly realize that there was something very off about Clark Kent, but would still be grateful for all the times he saved their lives. So they would be supportive of him even if they knew he was lying or whatever. But it would be forgivable once in a while for them to simply get sick and tired of all the lying and say something along the line of: "Ugh, you are the worst liar in the world. I've let many of your lies slide by, but you expect me to just swallow THAT one? That's the biggest whooper that I've heard you tell me so far!"

Clark also needs to learn how to do sarcastic confessions or phrase things so that it sounds like a joke instead of the truth. That way nobody believes him even if he was telling the truth. Then maybe he wouldn't feel so bad for having to lie all the time.... after all the blame would be on the guys who didn't believe his confessions.

Guy: "There's a large hole on the side of the three-story building, and there's a very large tree inside which is apparently the source of the hole. You were here, so care to tell me what happened?"
Clark: "Geez Whiz, you should had seen it. There was a parasitical monster rampaging around, and it threw the tree into that building! But then I punched the monster so hard that it instantly exploded and turned into a pile of goo."
Guy: "Ugh. What a wiseguy. You could had just said you didn't see what happened, and had no idea what occurred here. Hmm, I'm going to write this down as damages caused by a freakishly strong wind or something."
Clark: "Yeah, that does sound like a more reasonable explanation."

[BoyScout-ManOfTomorrow]

What personally grates me the most is when people start badgering Clark for keeping secrets directly after he just saved their lives! Like Lex with the Porsche crash and Lana with the Tornado. In Clark's version of the story he saved Lex anyway because he dived in after him. And with Lana he found her by the side of the road. But if it's true what they assume (which we know it is) then they should be even more grateful to him. Both would be dead by the end of season one if it weren't for him. But is this what they do? Of course not. They resent him for not admitting he saved their lives by using mysterious powers. Really guys?

Agreed!

This is also a problem in other CW shows like Arrow. Like the ending to Season 3 where everyone acted like babies because Oliver wouldn't trust them. Even after Olly saved their lives they were still hung over because of the "secrets & lies". The bad guy Malcom Merlyn came off as more likeable and mature.

[Shelby Kent]

I would say Clark is obligated to be honest when the person seeking the information is entitled to that information, but he is not obligated to be honest when the information-seeker wants the information for a reason other than one which would entitle him/her to the info (for instance, the info seeker just wants the info purely for the sake of curiosity. Example: Lana wanting to know HOW Clark saved her in the tornado. I can't really think of why she would be entitled to know the mechanism whereby he saved her, as it doesn't change or impact anything for her going forward, except to satisfy her amazement and curiosity...)

On the other hand, Clark is obligated to himself to be honest if that is his personal moral code. And he's answerable to himself (not Lana or Lex or someone else) when he doesn't live up to that, if that is his personal moral code. However, having that as a goal -- absolute honesty -- which is dictated by one's personal moral code, and actually achieving that goal all the time is something else entirely. We're fallible humans (or Kryptonians raised as humans) so I don't think anyone can be held to a standard of absolute perfection, even if they are the ones holding themselves to that standard of perfection. I think it's a matter of just doing the best you can and when you falter, pick yourself up and keep on trying.

Having said all that. I would say that technically Clark did not have to lie to Lex and Lana. If either one asked him a direct question (for example, "Clark did you rip open the roof of my car?" or "Clark how did you get into the truck when it was up in the air during the tornado" ) , Clark could say something along the lines of, "I don't want to discuss that any further with you" or "I don't want to talk about it." Then he's not lying, he's setting a boundary which technically both of them should respect. But it's interesting to me to think about how they may have responded to him if he did set that boundary. Would they, and others, have shown respect for his wishes, or would some, or all of them, have relentlessly badgered him? (Not that I'm saying that is a rationale for lying, but rather that people sometimes lie in situations where they are trying to protect boundaries of privacy -- as a way to avoid conflict, hurt feelings etc, rather just come out and make it clear that there is a boundary line there...).

[DJ Doena]

Clark is actually most of the time quite clever in answering a question without actually lying.

Take this exchange from the end of Extinction for example:

Lana: You know, I, um, I believed Van for a minute when he told me you were bulletproof.

Clark: Is that what he told you?

Lana: It was really comforting to hear. Suddenly everything made sense. The tornado, all the times that you've been there... everything I can't explain...

Clark: I wish the answer was that easy. But I wasn't infected by the meteor rocks.


He avoids responding to the bulletproof statement by a counter-question and then truthfully answers that he was not infected by the meteor rocks.

He repeats this very same exercise with Lana again at the end of Freak.