Loved it? Hated it? What did you think of Tricksters?

[Aurora Moon]

I haven't gotten the impression that they've made Iris an "exotic beauty" who is desirable to men everywhere. She's had like three guys interested in her romantically all season. That's not much at all. Like, at any given year, any attractive woman probably has like a guy a day think she's attractive and want her. And Iris is someone who is attractive to people. Physically. By traditional standards. And I also don't get the impression they've tried to paint her with having a "wonderful personality". Not that she doesn't. But, I don't think I've heard anyone say that. I also don't get the impression Barry was obsessing over Iris either. I actually like that they talk about this character wise on The Flash, where Barry talks about how he's been stuck with never telling Iris how he felt and stuck feeling insecure about it because of his mother's death. But, I do agree that they pushed that aspect too far. Especially recently. For different reasons to be sure, but it's usually a thing. But it seems strange that you're citing normal person behavior on a TV show about people with super powers. Unattainable love interests are really more a staple of the story of being a superhero.

Seems that we have different definitions of what constitutes "desirable to men". To me three guys in one season is a lot of guys. and I think to male viewers she could be seen as very attractive too. It seems that you think that ALL the men on the show should be literally turning their heads every time Iris walks into a room, like she had a supernatural power over them. Otherwise, it just doesn't count! right?

I'm just pointing out that Iris and Lana Lang both fit an character archetype, even if their personalities and actors are different. That's all.

[Dagenspear]

Seems that we have different definitions of what constitutes "desirable to men". To me three guys in one season is a lot of guys. and I think to male viewers she could be seen as very attractive too. It seems that you think that ALL the men on the show should be literally turning their heads every time Iris walks into a room, like she had a supernatural power over them. Otherwise, it just doesn't count! right?

I'm just pointing out that Iris and Lana Lang both fit an character archetype, even if their personalities and actors are different. That's all.

Like I said: On any given day, a woman who is attractive by traditional standards has at least one guy or gal interested in her. Women who aren't attractive by traditional standards have plenty of men or women be interested in them within a month, let alone a year. Three guys is nothing.

There really are so few concepts a love interest can fulfill, that there's bound to be similarities between them.

[Aurora Moon]

In my experience, at least around the women I know, even the most attractive woman doesn't have random guys coming up to her all the time EVERYDAY. At least, not where I live. If it was really like that in other places... then *shrugs*. If there was at least one guy who found her sexually attractive each day, then they were keeping it to themselves.

You seem to have this weird idea that an attractive woman ALWAYS have a few dozens of guys publicly lining up to ask her out, etc in real life. The truth is, most women in real life have as much as luck in dating or attracting people just like men do. The dating scene is not super-easy for women just because of our gender, or even gender roles where it's expected that the men chase and the women are meant to be chased.

If anything those gender roles sometimes make it even more difficult in the dating scene for any woman, attractive or not. Because then we have to be careful about "chasing" a man otherwise a man who were raised with strict gender roles might get scared off by the fact a woman were actively expressing interest in him instead of letting him come to her in an passive way. Believe it or not, that's actually a turn off for some guys no matter how attractive the woman is.

Not to mention, too many guys are too chickenshit to ask out an attractive woman because they think she's above them... leading the woman to be dateless for the majority of time. Pretty and beautiful women often suffer from "somebody's girl syndrome" (SGS) in which they are perpetually single while cute and average looking girls have boyfriends or are hanging around guys. That's because many guys think the hot chicks already have gorgeous boyfriends and are out of their league and won't approach them. Therefore, the hot chick contracts SGS as a result. Guys also stay away from these particular women when they follow what self-help guru Robert Ringer calls the "Boyfriend Theory" which states that a man is better off physically by assuming that she has this big, buff and mean boyfriend, POSSLQ (person of opposite sex sharing living quarters), fiance or husband until he can assemble enough background information about the very attractive woman without stalking her.

So yeah, highly attractive woman does not always equal having tons of desirable guys flocking to her.

[Dagenspear]

In my experience, at least around the women I know, even the most attractive woman doesn't have random guys coming up to her all the time EVERYDAY. At least, not where I live. If it was really like that in other places... then *shrugs*. If there was at least one guy who found her sexually attractive each day, then they were keeping it to themselves.

You seem to have this weird idea that an attractive woman ALWAYS have a few dozens of guys publicly lining up to ask her out, etc in real life. The truth is, most women in real life have as much as luck in dating or attracting people just like men do. The dating scene is not super-easy for women just because of our gender, or even gender roles where it's expected that the men chase and the women are meant to be chased.

If anything those gender roles sometimes make it even more difficult in the dating scene for any woman, attractive or not. Because then we have to be careful about "chasing" a man otherwise a man who were raised with strict gender roles might get scared off by the fact a woman were actively expressing interest in him instead of letting him come to her in an passive way. Believe it or not, that's actually a turn off for some guys no matter how attractive the woman is.

Not to mention, too many guys are too chickenshit to ask out an attractive woman because they think she's above them... leading the woman to be dateless for the majority of time. Pretty and beautiful women often suffer from "somebody's girl syndrome" (SGS) in which they are perpetually single while cute and average looking girls have boyfriends or are hanging around guys. That's because many guys think the hot chicks already have gorgeous boyfriends and are out of their league and won't approach them. Therefore, the hot chick contracts SGS as a result. Guys also stay away from these particular women when they follow what self-help guru Robert Ringer calls the "Boyfriend Theory" which states that a man is better off physically by assuming that she has this big, buff and mean boyfriend, POSSLQ (person of opposite sex sharing living quarters), fiance or husband until he can assemble enough background information about the very attractive woman without stalking her.

So yeah, highly attractive woman does not always equal having tons of desirable guys flocking to her.

I never said anything about guys asking girl's out all the time. I said interested. And that's not really what happens on The Flash. Like I said: Iris has only had a few guys interested in her all season.

Please. The swearing and insulting of people who are afraid to ask people out was not necessary. That's part of the reason people are so insecure. Insulting never helps. It only makes people feel worse about themselves.

[Aurora Moon]

I wasn't really insulting anybody, I was emphasizing how scared they were. But whatever.
Iris had guys who were interested in her AND asked her out.... and it was three guys. it may not had been all three at once, but I think that's a pretty good indicator that she is desirable and attractive to many men out there. Simple as that. I don't know why you keep on nitpicking this.

[Dagenspear]

I wasn't really insulting anybody, I was emphasizing how scared they were. But whatever.
Iris had guys who were interested in her AND asked her out.... and it was three guys. it may not had been all three at once, but I think that's a pretty good indicator that she is desirable and attractive to many men out there. Simple as that. I don't know why you keep on nitpicking this.

I really don't get that. A few guys over the course of a year is nothing. She's a traditionally attractive woman. In real life, she would found attractive to many men. I also think we got confused somehow, when I was talking about three guys, I was referring to the third guy as the guy who turned himself into metal.

Regarding the insulting: There are better ways to refer to people. I'm sure you're better than using those negative terms.

[Aurora Moon]

I don't know why you keep on insisting that three guys is "nothing". Do you think I'm trying to slut-shame her or something? Being highly desirable to many guys out there isn't a bad thing at all in itself.

Okay, I can see why you might get defensive if you thought I was bashing Iris because I thought the writer was copying off the Lana Lang archtype. I'm not, okay? I'm mainly nitpicking on the writers themselves for being unable to come up with a new spin on themes that was already done in other superhero shows.

After all, the one main thing I found annoying about Lana Lang, was how the writers mainly used her to cause the main character pain. The writers really loved to see Clark Kent heartbroken and lovestruck all at the same time.... to have him be constantly brooding over how Lana could never really love him, etc. So really, I was really more annoyed at the writers than I was at the character herself, for the way they handled her character on the show.

Anyhow.... I'm kind of getting bored with this conversation.

[Dagenspear]

I don't know why you keep on insisting that three guys is "nothing". Do you think I'm trying to slut-shame her or something? Being highly desirable to many guys out there isn't a bad thing at all in itself.

Okay, I can see why you might get defensive if you thought I was bashing Iris because I thought the writer was copying off the Lana Lang archtype. I'm not, okay? I'm mainly nitpicking on the writers themselves for being unable to come up with a new spin on themes that was already done in other superhero shows.

After all, the one main thing I found annoying about Lana Lang, was how the writers mainly used her to cause the main character pain. The writers really loved to see Clark Kent heartbroken and lovestruck all at the same time.... to have him be constantly brooding over how Lana could never really love him, etc. So really, I was really more annoyed at the writers than I was at the character herself, for the way they handled her character on the show.

Anyhow.... I'm kind of getting bored with this conversation.

Well, I'm just trying to say that it's not a big deal. The hilarious thing is: Clark caused Lana about just as much pain. And unnecessarily too. Ah, memories.

It's not like they can make Iris a superhero though. I take issue with what the show's doing too. You know that better than most. But, there's honestly not much to do with human love interests, especially from this writing team, with the way they handle their Arrow characters. So, we'll just have to suffer through it. Or petition for a new writing team. I'm really only half kidding.

Deal?

[Aurora Moon]

Yeah. I'm half tempted to start up that petition though. :P

[Dagenspear]

Yeah. I'm half tempted to start up that petition though. :P

Fair enough.

[Xum Yukinori]

Loved the use of one of the old "Trickster" musical themes used from the 1990s Flash series. And yes, not many people realize there were two. One was the bouncy, twangy theme used throughout the episode "The Trickster", and the other was used through most of the follow up episode, "Revenge of the Trickster". The newer theme is what I refer to as the "Trickster with Partner" theme because it was used during the scenes when he was teaming up with Zoe Clark's Prank, and later with the brainwashed Flash. Then, near the end of the episode, after the Flash came to his senses and Trickster essentially dumped Prank to make his getaway, the music shifted back to the bouncy, twangy theme again -- as he was now going solo.

And of course, this new "Tricksters" episode employed the "Trickster with Partner" theme -- well done.

[Xum Yukinori]

I also do not know if this was mentioned, but in the scene where the Flash notified the poisoned crowd (which included Iris) that they had been given the antidote, he used his normal voice and not the "vibrating" one. I wonder if Iris picked up on that...

[mbozzo]

I like the episode. I gave it an 8. Mark was a great Trickster in the 1990 Flash series, but he take the cake in this one.