DC Movie Slate

[The Krypton Knight]

And Sony is developing a (likely) Black Cat movie, and doubtless a Wonder Woman movie will be on the horizon, so it shouldn't be long now before we see some female headlined CBM's soon enough.

[Halberdier17]

Some where thinking that Aquaman could be a good villain in Justice League atleast for the first part of the film. They brought up the Thrones of Atlantis storyline and it could work. The latter half of the movie Ocean Master could be the villain.

I don't think they will go that route because they are making an animated adaptation this year.

[maasaloo]

Ocean Master as a Justice League villain! Heck no and it wouldn't need the league to form to fight him. Just send Superman or Aquaman himself and get it done.

[Degobunny]

We also had super girl in the 1980s. I'm talking about the curent cycle.

Fact is, as much as some of us are misguided in loving WB and Disney, they are large corporations interested in one thing only: tomorrow's bottom line. They make movies based on perceived risk and reward. If they're not making Wonder Woman or Ms. Marvel, it's because they think it won't make money because people are not interested in watching that. A lot of people have acknowledged that Hollywood has a woman problem, most movie tickets are sold to men, 70% of speaking roles are men, 100% of lead-superheroes in the past five years are men, etc.

At least in terms of minority castings we've had Blade and Hancock, which unlike Catwoman, are not total garbage. Notice also that "minority" means black males. In The Winter Soldier and Man of Steel, 2 of the top-12 cast members are minorities, exceptional among modern CBMs. And all 4 of those minorities between the two films are black males ... though Alessandro Juliani might count, I don't remember his rank in MoS.

Both studios are bad about minorities, but Marvel seems to have a better handle about it. I think this in large part to the majority of Marvel' s most important characters being developed decades after DCs.

I am really hoping Marvel makes Doctor Strange oriental. I do not think it should step on the toes comic book fans, the way Heimdall being black did with Norse mythology fans.

[Degobunny]

Some where thinking that Aquaman could be a good villain in Justice League atleast for the first part of the film. They brought up the Thrones of Atlantis storyline and it could work. The latter half of the movie Ocean Master could be the villain.

I don't think they will go that route because they are making an animated adaptation this year.

So what...Aquaman is going to essentially be Namor. The barbarian esqe king of the ocean who wants to wage war on humanity for causing problems in the ocean?

[maasaloo]

So what...Aquaman is going to essentially be Namor. The barbarian esqe king of the ocean who wants to wage war on humanity for causing problems in the ocean?

That's what Aquaman has been doing for a very long time. Or did you think he just talks to fishes?

I'm not well versed in all things Aquaman but those people I know that read his stories say the New 52 has done wonders for him but he's been like that for a while it's just that he was seen as a joke character by the masses.

[Halberdier17]

Main reason I thought it was a good idea is usually the team-ups happen in movies because of an extraterrestrial threat; so I thought it would be different if they teamed up based on a threat from someone actually on Earth.

[Degobunny]

That's what Aquaman has been doing for a very long time. Or did you think he just talks to fishes?

I'm not well versed in all things Aquaman but those people I know that read his stories say the New 52 has done wonders for him but he's been like that for a while it's just that he was seen as a joke character by the masses.

I feel like Aquaman should have more nobility to him then Namor. Namor is an anti hero. He tried to flood New York City, he kidnapped Sue Storm. He was apart of Osborn' s group allies during the Dark Avenger days. He so not a nice guy. Aquaman should not have to be a jerk like Namor to be taken seriously.

I see no problem with talking to sea creatures, I wish I could talk to them.

[maasaloo]

I feel like Aquaman should have more nobility to him then Namor. Namor is an anti hero. He tried to flood New York City, he kidnapped Sue Storm. He was apart of Osborn' s group allies during the Dark Avenger days. He so not a nice guy. Aquarian should have to be a jerk like Namor to be taken seriously.

I see no problem with talking to sea creatures, I wish I could talk to them.

Oh I agree with you my point about Aquaman is that he cares about the ocean and blames everyone on land for it. He's not sure about them until he meets Supes and Bats etc and joins the league.


Look at what the World Engine did to the ocean in MOS?




It would be awesome to see Arthur pissed off at Clark during his intro in BvS.

[DA_Champion]

Both studios are bad about minorities, but Marvel seems to have a better handle about it. I think this in large part to the majority of Marvel' s most important characters being developed decades after DCs.

I am really hoping Marvel makes Doctor Strange oriental. I do not think it should step on the toes comic book fans, the way Heimdall being black did with Norse mythology fans.

You can't really say that Marvel does a better job, you're comparing a sample of 10 movies to a sample of 1, so it's not meaningful as we can't really assess WB/DC.

Fox is definitely doing an awful job. They took a character named Pietro Maximoff and renamed him "Peter".

[Degobunny]

You can't really say that Marvel does a better job, you're comparing a sample of 10 movies to a sample of 1, so it's not meaningful as we can't really assess WB/DC.

Fox is definitely doing an awful job. They took a character named Pietro Maximoff and renamed him "Peter".

No actually I was thinking about the majority of dc comic films, leaving vertigo titles out of it. Superman is a very white cast. We have had a few minorities, Richard Pryor as a joke of a villian and Lawrence Fishborne as a forgettable Perry White. The only significant minority villian Batman has is ra ah ghul and they made him white. So we had a couple Asians business men and Lucius Fox as the minorities in the batman films. I am not sure if Catwoman should even count since the character was not even Selina Kyle.

Marvel's MCU has a significant minority in all there films, 3 of the 5 leads in Guardians of the Galaxy have minority backgrounds. I think that speaks to the fact that Marvel recognizes there is an issue and is doing something about it.

Your right Fox has screwed especially since the x-men are the poster children for minorities, and Fox has built there franchise around 3 old white guys. FOX never should have bothered with Quicksilver, they should have used Northstar.

[Degobunny]

Let me put it this way if Superman was apart of Marvel, I think Man of Steel would have had Steel helping Superman fight Zod.

[DA_Champion]

Marvel's MCU has a significant minority in all there films, 3 of the 5 leads in Guardians of the Galaxy have minority backgrounds. I think that speaks to the fact that Marvel recognizes there is an issue and is doing something about it.

There's only one character in GoTG whose race the audience can recognise: Peter Quill. The other four are aliens. You might as well give credit to James Cameron for casting Zoe Saldana in Avatar, or to George Lucas for casting James Earl Jones to play Darth Vader.

Do you give credit to Man of Steel for having Italian-American actress Carla Gugino voice Kelex? Probably not.

Your right Fox has screwed especially since the x-men are the poster children for minorities, and Fox has built there franchise around 3 old white guys. FOX never should have bothered with Quicksilver, they should have used Northstar.

Yup, it's especially bad because it's the X-Men.

Let me put it this way if Superman was apart of Marvel, I think Man of Steel would have had Steel helping Superman fight Zod.

Black sidekicks that exist solely to support the white lead are not new, we've had them since the 1980s at least. There's even a term for it in American literature, "the magic negro".

What was different in MoS was that the two black characters, Perry White and General Swanwick, were in positions of authority and were treated with respect by the story. Normally when you have black characters in leadership positions they end up being shown to not be worthy of their positions, and they're humiliated, a good example of that would be Steven Soderbergh's Contagion.

In that movie (Contagion), Laurence Fishburne starts off as being treated with respect, I was actually shocked to see a Black lead in a Hollywood movie being treated with respect, it's unusual. However, about halfway through the movie it's revealed that he is corrupt, and then a white character comes in to put him in his place. Fishburne ends the movie making friends with the janitor, and his character arc for the movie is to leave the senior position he doesn't belong in to be friends with a janitor. That's the norm for Black characters in Hollywood.

If you want to include WB's other movies you can find Amanda Waller in Green Lantern, Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle, Morgan Freeman as Lucius Fox, or even the Steel, Supergirl, and Catwoman movies they've made, et cetera but I'm not going to. It's a new franchise led by different people, Nolan is gone, the old WB CEO is gone, so we shouldn't assign credit/blame based on past performances.

All we have is MoS, which was good by CBM standards, only six of the top-12 actors are white males which ties it with The Winter Soldier, but that's setting a low bar. Like I said before, I went through and counted, TWS and MoS are the best recent CBMs in this regard. So individually they look good even as the genre as a whole looks bad.

WB/DC did cast Ray Fisher as Cyborg and Jason Momoa as Aquaman, and possible Johnson as Shazaam, but if they're just sidekicks like War Machine, Falcon, and Heimdall then it isn't a step up.

So, in conclusion and to reiterate, I think MoS is good by CBM standards, which is a low bar. WB/DC as a whole may be better or worse four or five years down the line, but it's too early to tell.

[Degobunny]

There's only one character in GoTG whose race the audience can recognise: Peter Quill. The other four are aliens. You might as well give credit to James Cameron for casting Zoe Saldana in Avatar, or to George Lucas for casting James Earl Jones to play Darth Vader.

Do you give credit to Man of Steel for having Italian-American actress Carla Gugino voice Kelex? Probably not.


Yup, it's especially bad because it's the X-Men.


Black sidekicks that exist solely to support the white lead are not new, we've had them since the 1980s at least. There's even a term for it in American literature, "the magic negro".

What was different in MoS was that the two black characters, Perry White and General Swanwick, were in positions of authority and were treated with respect by the story. Normally when you have black characters in leadership positions they end up being shown to not be worthy of their positions, and they're humiliated, a good example of that would be Steven Soderbergh's Contagion.

In that movie (Contagion), Laurence Fishburne starts off as being treated with respect, I was actually shocked to see a Black lead in a Hollywood movie being treated with respect, it's unusual. However, about halfway through the movie it's revealed that he is corrupt, and then a white character comes in to put him in his place. Fishburne ends the movie making friends with the janitor, and his character arc for the movie is to leave the senior position he doesn't belong in to be friends with a janitor. That's the norm for Black characters in Hollywood.

If you want to include WB's other movies you can find Amanda Waller in Green Lantern, Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle, Morgan Freeman as Lucius Fox, or even the Steel, Supergirl, and Catwoman movies they've made, et cetera but I'm not going to. It's a new franchise led by different people, Nolan is gone, the old WB CEO is gone, so we shouldn't assign credit/blame based on past performances.

All we have is MoS, which was good by CBM standards, only six of the top-12 actors are white males which ties it with The Winter Soldier, but that's setting a low bar. Like I said before, I went through and counted, TWS and MoS are the best recent CBMs in this regard. So individually they look good even as the genre as a whole looks bad.

WB/DC did cast Ray Fisher as Cyborg and Jason Momoa as Aquaman, and possible Johnson as Shazaam, but if they're just sidekicks like War Machine, Falcon, and Heimdall then it isn't a step up.

So, in conclusion and to reiterate, I think MoS is good by CBM standards, which is a low bar. WB/DC as a whole may be better or worse four or five years down the line, but it's too early to tell.

Yeah...no Kleenex does not even come into this. My favorite show in the whole world is Deep Space 9. Just because Michael Dorn who plays Worf has ridges on his forehead does not make him less of an actor then Avery Brooks or Cirroc Lofton. Some of the greatest actors on that show were covered head to toe in grey make-up to play Cardassians. Are they less of actors because They went through hours of makeup before they were put on screen?

James Earl Jones has one of the most iconic voices out there. Voice acting is an actual skill. I was watching the commentary on my Gargoyles cartoon DVD set and the commentators discussed specifically the actress who played Macbeth' s eventually wife. She had to retrain herself as an actress to act with just her voice, the commentators were surprised at how quickly she adapted over the course of the episodes she was in because it is there experience, that it is a lot harder for most actors retrain themselves that way.

DC standards are lower then Marvel when it comes to casting minorities in films. Marvel has gone of there to eliminate 'sidekicks' from films. Warmachine and Falcoln in Iron Man 3 and The Winter Solider are not sidekicks they function as equals. The magic negro debatable applies to one character in the MCU...Heimdell. And yet his role and position in Asguard is still more important then vast majority of minorities in DC comic films.

MOS would have been a good example if these minorities you speak of had more significant roles. Perry White just stood around judging and repremending Lois for her rash actions and black military guy did what? Helped Superman when the fight went down? Did those two characters even have story arcs?

[DA_Champion]

There are two separate issues, that of creating job opportunities for minority actors which is what you're bringing up and that of putting up good minority good characters on screen which is what I was discussing. The first issue is important too, but it's not what I was discussing.

As for arcs, Swanwick and White were as secondary as Rhodey and Falcon, secondary characters don't necessarily need arcs ... the Emperor didn't have an arc in RoTJ he's pretty important though. Also, MoS was a plot-driven and not a character-driven film, other than Col. Hardy, Zod, and Clark Kent there weren't any arcs.

War Machine and Falcon are not equals. The movies are not named after them, they get less screen time, they don't get glory in The Avengers team-up movies, and in the case of Don Cheadle his salary for IM3 might have been $100,000, in contrast to the $100,000,000 that RDJ made, a difference of a factor of A THOUSAND. We can debate their merits but let's not pretend that they're equals to their leads. They're not equals, they're sidekicks.