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I don't understand why there are so many people against Katie Cassady. She's a great actress. Just because she looks different then in season 1 doesn't make her different.. She's still who she is.. People, the writers do the writing.. She hasn't had much going in the past few episodes. But I'm sure that will change. We have a number of talents here and the writers are trying to keep every one busy, I'm sure.. And to all our Olicity fans, Laurel won't get in the way of that.. The writers will do what they think is best for the show... I just think Laurel is getting a bad break here...People are putting Katie down for losing weight or having work done.. Her business. I think she was and is beautiful... How come no body mentions the fact that Sara has changed 100% from the boat sinking to now? Hello....? Nobody got upset about that? I'm not looking for trouble here, just trying to prove a point.. Please give Laurel a chance to be the person she is supose to be... You know you'll be happy with her... The show hasn't failed us yet... You can probably tell I'm hooked on this show,.. Right?
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Lol chill dude.
First of all, who the hell is angry with Katie Cassidy? No one ever said they hate her. It's just her character that people dislike.
Now, why do people hate Laurel? No. Not because she is skinny. What kind of stupid reason is that? No. Not because we think she is "ugly", That's another stupid reason. The reason we "dislike" Laurel is because she treats the Vigilante like crap, she is just taking drugs and acting like a depressed loser, and that's pretty much it. Sarah didn't do anything to make us hate her, infact, she just became better, like you said, she changed 100%, therefore she used to be a loser like Laurel but then she became more disciplined and more likeable as she respects Oliver/the Arrow. I'm sure Laurel will become better sooner. The writers are trying to make us hate her then slowly like her much more, so don't blame us.Last edited by deathstroke79; 02-01-2014, 11:56 AM. -
Deathstroke79, I don't know how much you've been around the "Arrow" fandom, but there is a LOT of hate directed towards Katie Cassidy. Just go to the CW network's own FB page and you'll find loads of comments where people call Katie Cassidy "a b*tch", "a bad actress", skinny, "a skeleton", "much uglier than Emily", "a plastic surgery victim" etc. etc. and where they tell her to leave the show because "nobody likes her anyway". This cyber bullying has been going on since long before season two started, so it doesn't have anything or much to do with her current storyline. You'll see the same type of comments on entertainment site comment sections, twitter, Stephen's FB page, tumblr as well as on unmoderated forums like the imdb forum. Just recently someone posted a thread on the imdb forum with the title "Laurel as Black Canary" which features a photo of a skeleton. This horrendous post is clearly not primarely directed towards Laurel, but towards Katie and her recent weight loss. The Ksite is a haven of courtesy and friendliness, both between posters and towards characters/actors, but believe me, there is an ugly world out there where so-called fans display a disheartening lack of respect and human decency.
The odd thing about this wave of fandom hate is that Katie Cassidy was not generally regarded as a poor or disliked actress in the past... in fact she was both well-regarded and popular in her earlier roles in various TV shows. So, there is clearly a strange fandom dynamic here that has made her a punching bag for the "Arrow" fandom, a dynamic that goes beyond the dislike that individual fans might have for her character. I think that some of this hate stems from a group of fanatical shippers, who have transferred their dislike for Laurel "the ship blocker" to the actress who portrays her, but I also think that it has to do with the fact that people nowadays feel that they can post anything they like online, even things that they would never say to a person's face.
As for the dislike towards Laurel, I would say that it was there long before her current storyline. People called Laurel a self-righteous whiner, a bore and a heap of other things in season one as well. I guess I'm the kind of viewer who finds it hard to pass such harsh judgment on ANY character (especially when it is a character who is generally portrayed in a positive light), so I had a hard time understanding the criticism, especially since I liked Laurel and saw that she had a lot of good traits as well. Now, as for her current situation and behavior, I sincerely don't believe that we're supposed to hate her, just like we're not supposed to hate a real life person who has gone through what she has gone through/ is going through right now. I actually think the writers and the directors expected the viewers to feel sorry for her and to empathize with her plight, or at least understand why she behaves the way she does, just like we understood that his Island experiences had made Oliver a seemingly emotionless, cold-blooded killer. Of course, according to the twisted morals of some parts of the "Arrow" fandom, it's apparently less reprehensible to snap a guys neck (or take out your rage on bodyguards who are only doing their jobs) than to feel sorry for yourself, start using drugs or reject people you feel have let you down, like Laurel did with her father and Oliver in "Tremors". This is just my personal opinion, but if you want to judge and condemn someone, you should at least hold the people around him/her to the same high standards. IMHO that is something that lots of people forget to do when it comes to Laurel. I can understand if people dislike Laurel or like her less than other characters, but what I don't understand is the lack of empathy and the double standards of parts of the "Arrow" fandom. I will just finish by citing a post that I found online that expresses my feelings very well. It deals mainly with Laurel's behavior in the last few episodes:
Like you I'm sure that Laurel will come around and find a way out of her current situation, which means that she will become stronger, more harmonious and trusting and thus a more likeable character. There are probably fans who will rag on her no matter what she does, but I hope that the more positively predisposed viewers will like her better once she has been through her crucible.This post conveniently forgets moments wasn’t gratingly abrasive, snarky and *****y and ignores why she acts in such a manner.
Her remarks to her dad were a combination of denial (nobody with a problem admits they have one) and outrage at him for trying to help her, remembering when their roles were reversed he pushed her away.
When she brushed off Oliver she was still mad at him for cheating on her, with her sister, and being indirectly responsible for Sara’s death. Sure that was five years ago but old feelings can be dredge up again under the right circumstances. It opened old wounds and she did not want him around. Not to mention his lack of concern for her led to his affair and the death of her sister.
People in pain refuse help, especially if it’s from the people causing it, or people who ignore your attempts to help.
Everybody who is suffering think they’re the only one to suffer so greatly. The world does revolve around them because their life has become one great big pain. We all do it. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either a liar or trying to sell you something.
You’re sick of her acting like an angry, wounded person? Hopefully nobody close to you winds up an emotional wreck because you lack of empathy here is troubling.
Laurel has been likeable. With Tommy, her coworkers in season one, and Thea. She’s been caring, supporting, humorous, and willing to help.
Sure she hasn’t been any of that too much in season two, but that doesn’t mean she has never been that way.
If you don’t like the character fine, but be honest about it. Don’t cherry pick certain flaws and overlook her good qualities.
Sorry about the rant, but the way the "Arrow" fandom treats Laurel really annoys me sometimes, especially since both Oliver and Sara have done some pretty reproachable things in the past....Last edited by evaba; 02-01-2014, 02:31 PM.Comment
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I don't have anything against the actress, I think she does a good job with the material she gets and she doesn't deserve any hate just because some people dislike her character.
I liked Laurel in season 1, she has never been my favourite character but she was ok and I don't hate her now, but I do have some issues with the way they have portrayed her character in season 2, they have made some changes that have been really hurtful for her popularity and I can see why:
- Oliver is the hero, he is the main character and the writers made us care for him since the pilot, so seeing Laurel blaming the Arrow for Tommy's death made a lot of people see red, especially because we saw Oliver trying to save Tommy's life and how deeply it has affected him. Laurel also lied and used the trust the Arrow had in her to set up a trap, something that didn't help Laurel's popularity. Of course Laurel was/is in grief and she was just blaming the Arrow because she didn't want to feel guilty, after all, if it weren't for her, Tommy wouldn't have been in the Glades the day of the earthquake. I don't blame her for it, but I can understand why her behaviour made her enemy number 1 for some fans.
- Her new job: I'm not saying her new job is bad, in fact working for he DA means she goes after criminals, but the fact is, we are not seeing her doing that, in season 1 we saw how Laurel cared about her clients, how she took cases against dangerous criminals because it was the right thing to do, how she didn't mind if her life was on the line because she knew she was doing the right thing. In season 2 we have not seen that, those scenes are gone, and it's a pity because they were a great way to see how much Laurel cared about others.
- She seems to be disconnected from the main plot: so far Laurel has been away from the main arc, of course, after trying to capture the Arrow it makes sense for him to stay away, and as Oliver he is also keeping some distance, this combination means that Laurel hasn't been a key character during the first half of the season, she has even been completely absent in a couple of episodes and it didn't make a difference. This is going to change soon, she nows the truth about Blood and Sarah is back in town for her, but still, this has make some people think the show can go on without her.
- Her character development is a plot device: the writers are using Laurel's addiction as an excuse to bring back Sarah and make the other characters reconnect with her, right now they are just showing us how much Laurel drinks and how it affects the people who care about her, the only moment Laurel talks about her feelings is right after rejecting her father's help, they are making Laurel a part of the plot, which is never a good thing.
All this combined with the fact that Sarah managed to become a fan favourite in just a few scenes and the possibility of her dying and Laurel becoming Black Canary explains, IMHO, why so many fans have issues with Laurel. Of course, this is not the actress fault, it's a combination of how the writers have treated her character and the fans not reacting the way they expected.Last edited by dark sister; 02-01-2014, 03:47 PM.Comment
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Maybe I should of chose my words better.. Instead of ' hate ' maybe, ' unhappy ' with Laurel... Again, I think it's it's just the story lines she's been given lately.. And I am Not putting down the writers here. They are fantastic.. No complaints from me.. I just read so much negative being posted about Katie Cassidy. And I love her. I love them all. And I threw in that little snip about Sara being 100% different! nobody seemed to catch. Because she is a different actress then the Sara that was on the boat... Don't know why nobody has mentioned it.. The first ones real name was Jacqueline something Wood. I forget the middle name. Sorry about that.. About Laurel, I am looking forward to the next few shows where they are going to build her up... I can't wait to see that.. One more thought before I sign off. I think because there are so many pushing for Oliver and Felicity to get together, they might be thinking Laurel is a threat..but I don't think so.. I also don't think Oliver and Felicity will end up together either.. It would change their hole dynamic at working together... Just my opinion...Comment
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"darksister", you made some good points about Laurel and I agree with most of the things you wrote. Like you, I put the blame on the writers who have really mishandled her character in season two. I don't agree a 100% about Sara-I have seen very mixed reactions to both the character and the actress online. In fact, if Laurel was replaced by Sara (which I don't think will happen) and given more screen time/importance in the present-day plot, she might fall victim of fandom criticism as well. There is a tendency in the "Arrow" fandom to latch on to a new shiny object/character, who becomes the new fan favourite in some quarters. However, sometimes the enthusiasm wanes, something which even has happened to Felicity, although she is still popular. I can even imagine a scenario where some fans would start to wax nostalgic about Laurel and how much they liked her and what a good actress Katie is!
I mean, since season two started I have read posts where fans say how much more likeable and gorgeous Laurel was in season one, conveniently forgetting that in season one there were folks who complained about her boring "love-interest" storylines or commenting on Katie's "double-chin"!
I hope the writers will realize that they have misjudged how parts of the audience would react to Laurel's season two substance abuse storyline and that they will work on building Laurel's post-depression character development, rather than sidelining her again as they did in the beginning of the season. IF the TPTB want to keep Laurel as the future Black Canary, I think that they need to focus on writing her better and try to integrate her more into the main storyline.Last edited by evaba; 02-01-2014, 03:56 PM.Comment
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I noticed what you said about Sarah being a different actress, but honestly I don't see why that matters, they probably chose the first actress not knowing they would get a second season and the chance to tell Sarah's story, all Sarah did in season 1 was walk around a boat in her underwear and appear in a few photos, if the actress wasn't available or just wasn't convincing to portray Sarah as the Black Canary it makes sense to recast, Arrow is not the first show to do this and it won't be the last. Is not like she had a big part in season 1. And I don't see what it has to do with Laurel being unpopular or with Katie Cassidy being attacked.Comment
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I'm sorry, wasn't trying to make a big deal about it.. Just going back to the Katie Cassidy thing of her looks changing from season 1 to season 2. I was trying to point out, in my ( dry humor ) sort of way, that Sara' s looks changed too. And nobody cared... Guess I didn't get that point across very well, either... I really have to practice at this... I didn't mean it like it was a bad thing for the show.. Believe me there... But it sounded good in my head....Comment
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Izzyma I can see what you mean. I have the same exact problem it sounds good in my head but I always have to restate what I meant because a lot of the time other users misunderstand my posts.
It isn't usually on this site it is mainly other sites that I'm a member of.Comment
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The writing of Laurel's character is primarily the issue and the only issue re: Laurel that would have validity in any discussion about her.
I think those who don't like Laurel in the fandom can be separated between those who just don't like Laurel not based on anything character or story related (including those who take irrelevant appearance/looks potshots), and those who don't like her based on story or character issues (including those who are into 'ships and dislike or even reject the "inevitability" factor with Ollie and Laurel as an item, or those who don't support Laurel's Black Canary destiny). There would be exceptions ie those who accept Laurel's Canary destiny but might be opposed to Ollie and Laurel as an item?
As for those who like Laurel (even if she's not the favourite), the flip-side would be largely true. Again, there could be Laurel fans who like the Lauriver ship but don't accept her destiny and vice versa. It's a sloppy way to divvy it up, my mind's already spinning.
In brief, I'd say anything about her character development, either in writing or how Katie portrays Laurel in a given story is fair comment -- it's about the character/show itself. The personal stuff is off-side and cannot be viewed as legitimate criticism. I usually tune these out and refuse to respond to such drivel.
While I've had issues with how Laurel has developed in the series, it doesn't mean that Sara is automatically better or that she's more legitimate as Canary. She may look the part and even act the part -- how "well" is a matter of opinion -- but unless someone has a crystal ball and knows just how Laurel is going to turn out in S5 or beyond, it's premature to make any judgment now on who is the definitive Canary on Arrow. I think it will be Laurel's destiny to complete IMHO, but I am intrigued by how Sara may contribute to her sister's journey.
On a less serious side note, both Katie and Caity (they must both turn their heads when the cast goes: Hey, Katie!) have come out ahead when you consider that Sara Lance 1.0 in the Pilot never made it out of the sea. She's lost forever, never to resurface again. No love for the "first" Sara, the equally adorable Jacqueline MacInnes Wood?
"Ollie (to Sara 2.0): You look sort of different, Sara. Didn't you have darker hair? You were taller too -- I think.*Ollie looks puzzled*
Sara 2.0 (Caity): Ivo must have exposed you to a hallucinogen. Over time, it can cloud your memory. (to herself) I will light a candle for you Sara 1.0, but Oliver must never remember my taller, dark-haired doppelganger. The cost to Ollie's sanity would be too high ..."Comment
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Wow, never saw that type of rage about Katie Cassidy. I've only seen some threads about her appearance changing and why she is annoying, after seeing that type of behaviour I have a different perspective. In that case, I have no clue why people are so angry, perhaps they take the show way too seriously. Thanks for informing me, Evaba.Comment
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Sometimes ignorance is a blessing! I really would prefer not to have seen all this hate, but when some of the worst haters can be found on the network's own Facebook page it's kind of hard to avoid. I would love to go to FB more often for information and to watch videos etc, but the vocal minority of Katie detractors makes it such an unpleasant experience that I avoid that site nowadays. I'm saying vocal minority, because there are of course posters who like and defend both Laurel and Katie. What I find hard to understand is how the people who manage the site seem to be totally uninterested in dealing with this cyberbullying. It is as if they don't care WHAT people write, as long as there is social media buzz. In fact, a cyberfriend who reviews CW shows and knows the business from inside has told me that the only thing the networks register are the number of mentions and hits the show gets, not what people actually write....you know, "all publicity is good publicity". However, I think the network/TPTB have an obligation to upport their own actors and shield them from this type of cyber hate, so I find this mode of thinking is a bit cynical. If Craig can keep Ksite a friendly and bashing-free environment, despite the large amount of traffic on the site, I don't see how the people who maintain the FB can't enforce some common sense rules of conduct on their site. Of course, social media like twitter will always remain a cesspool when it comes to these things, because there is no way they can be moderated (and I'm sure that Emily B.R. and the other actors get their share of cyberhate as well!).
As for taking the show and the characters far too seriously, I honestly think that shipping is a contributing factor when it comes to misinterpreting or over-interpreting what is actually happening on screen. If you look at places like tumblr and twitter, I'd say at least 80% of those who are adamantly opposed to Laurel are young women who adore Felicity and who ship Olicity to death. Unlike more normal Felicity/Olicity fans, these people seem to live in their own fan fiction fantasy where Oliver is falling heads over heels in love with Felicity and where the idea of an Olicity "slow burn" and endgame is so entrenched that they are convinced that this is how the show really will end. They seem to believe that Laurel will either somehow magically disappear or that the Laurel/Oliver relationship will be retconned out of the show's continuity to accomodate an Olicity romance. I'm not saying that this couldn't happen (because anything can happen in a TV show) I'm just thinking that it's FAR too early to make any predictions about possible endgames when the show is only in its second season. If you consider that this is a CW show, where writers love to tease various relationships and love triangles, I have a feeling that the question who is Ollie's One True Love won't be settled for several seasons yet.
I don't think it's wrong to love or identify with a fictional character or root for a fictional couple, and we've had some nice shipper discussions here on Ksite. However, the Olicity social media fandom takes the whole concept of shipping to unpredecented heights. In fact, when you read some tumblr posts you get the feeling that "Arrow" could just as well be named "The Felicity show" or "The Olicity show", because the selected scenes of Oliver and Felicity interaction (or Felicity interaction with anyone else) are regarded as the absolute center of the show. Oftentimes you get the impression that literally EVERYTHING that happens on "Arrow" is interpreted in terms of what it signifies for Felicity or the Olicity "romance", even totally irrelevant and unrelated plot details. Here are a few examples:
Felicity shares a few scenes with Sara..."Felicity and Sara are bossom friends"! Oliver clenches his jaw in a certain way..."Oliver is consumed with jealousy over Felicity's relationship with Barry"! The mysterious man next to Laurel in "Verdant" seems to follow the Laurel/Oliver/Thea/Felicity conversation..."The guy with the vial must have noticed the intimacy and the romantic tension between Oliver and Felicity, and therefore Felicity will be Slades' next victim"!. Laurel throws a glance at Felicity in a season one scene in "Verdant" and asks who she is..."Laurel is giving Felicity dirty looks because she knows about the chemistry and how Oliver is secretly falling in love with Felicity"! A very drunk Laurel ponders over the possibility of becoming Oliver's secretary, but realizes that this means that he has to fire Felicity... "Laurel is an awful, awful person and she insulted Felicity and implied that she is a slut!" Oliver and Felicity exchange a few snarky remarks or Felicity tells Oliver to "come home".. "Oh, how cute, they are already behaving like husband and wife"! Diggle gives Oliver some relationship advice about Felicity... "Diggle ships Olicity hard and he wants them to get together!"
If you think that these examples are too over-the-top to be real, I can assure you that each and every one is authentic....this is what you'll find if you ever venture into the Arrow and Olicity tags on tumblr. Of course there are a lot of sane and balanced Olicity shippers as well, and they are in general more positively predisposed towards Laurel and more realistic about their own ship ever becoming canon.
All this could be considered as the innocent fantasizing and speculating that is typical of the largely teenage tumblr female fandom. However, the amount of irrational dislike against Laurel and the constant negative over-interpretation and misinterpretation of everything the poor woman does and says gets pretty pathological at times. I don't think Laurel is flawless, and her behavior in the season two drug abuse/downward spiral storyline has been (intentionally, I think) irrational and off-putting at times. However, I find it hypocritical to rag on Laurel for virtually everything she does, while downplaying or ignoring the transgressions of all other characters. When Sara revealed the big Laurel secret to Oliver, many tumblr oliciters wrote long rants about what a deceitful, horrible person Laurel is, conveniently forgetting what Sara and Oliver did to Laurel a few years later. Of course, Oliver can never do anything wrong in their eyes since he is the other half of their ship! It's this type of highly biased, shipper-based interpretations that I think fuel the worst Laurel-hate, that is, the criticism that goes beyond the totally valid complaints about her actions and behavior.
Anyway, I have to stop here and I hope I haven't offended anyone. I promise that I will stick to what's happening on the show rather than what's happening in the fandom in the future!Last edited by evaba; 02-02-2014, 11:25 AM.Comment
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She's the Lana of Arrow.
I don't hate her personally, but I think the reason for the dislike is that her character isn't interesting and Cassidy's acting isn't varied.Comment
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Honestly, when I see some comments saying "Laurel is boring, the actress is boring....please kill her already...Sara needs to stay, she's so interesting" well, their arguments are very very thin and not justified! I enjoyed how she was upset towards Sara and she has every single right to be upset. Writers are making us believing that Laurel is the witch and Sara the poor little princess and so on but IMO, they are already putting Laurel into her own island. And when I saw "but you don't know what happened to Sara on the island, she went through a lot much more than Laurel, she is canon Black Canary" on comments -> facepalm
Seriously? Like seriously ? Do you think that Laurel went through nothing? She went through A LOT ! A divorce, a friend dying in front of her eyes, a boyfriend so-called dead, a sister stealing her boyfriend (the first crush from Sara : teenage behavior, blind spot for Ollie), disbarred because she had the opportunity to take down a killer involved into something sinister and for you this is nothing ? Some people are REALLY stubborn and want to see what they want to see, believe what they want to believe.
Honestly, I don't care about Sara, she's boring, predictable and she should have stayed dead because she hurts a lot of people, she's selfish, she ain't worth becoming the real Black Canary. Laurel has a lot of potential, she's stronger than Sara, she's brave, she has a big heart, and I still think she'll stay on the show until the end (despite the wishful thinkings from haters), but writers wasted the opportunity to let her on the road by not letting her fully involved in the main storylines. I don't want to hope something (I'm still convinced that Laurel will become The Black Canary and she's more worthy being Black Canary than Sara) but I know everything can change so quick on Arrow.
Anyway, the only character on Arrow I'm not disappointed is Slade. The best character on the show.Comment
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