My finale thoughts on Lex in smallville

[the jester]

At first I wasn't a fan of Lex's end in the finale but after rewatching it I love it and heres why.
Lex said earlier in the episode that you can't forget memories so I feel that his memories are repressed not erased.
When Tess says the world before this moment won't exist to you it's not cause the world is erased but just Lex can't accsess his mememories of it.
It's like Tess destroyed the bridge to his memories so the memories are repressed not gone.
And the symbolism is awesome.
Lex stands up and it's the last true moment of smallville Lex then the flashback clips happen and I look at those clips as the story of Lex.
They build up and lead to who Lex really is now.The flashbacks end and we are left with the true comic book Lex with full knowledge of who he is and what he's going to be.
and that is shown by his actions he could have went to the aid of the dead woman but no he walks away from Tess who represents the past and walks to the window and looks out the window showing him looking towards the future and who will be the first person he see it's Superman.
Lex was told many times in the show that dwelling on the past was his true weakness.
So now he's unburdened by the past just like Clark but unlike Clark he didn't embrace his past
Lex repressed his.
Alot of people say the finale throws 7 years of Clark and Lex out the window I disagree first Clark still has the knowledge of his time with Lex. As for Lex history will repeat it's self and his relationship with Superman will mirror his relationship with Clark. When he first notices Superman
Lex will try to befriend him and of course Superman won't accept his friendship. Also if Lex does look into his past he'll find out at least he owned The Mansion and the Talon two places that were destroyed just a few months before his memories were repressed and Superman made his debut. Coincidence Lex won't think so.
So instead of feeling betrayed by Clark Lex will feel rejected by Superman and Lex always felt Clark was keeping secrets about being super powered
now Lex will feel Superman's keeping secrets about them having a past together. and so Lex's obsession will now be focused on Superman.

[BoyScout-ManOfTomorrow]

While you make a good point I saw Lex walking away from Tess as just a man who wanted to see what the hell was going on outside given a planet loomed overhead. Lex's speech about the memories could have just as easily meant that he didn't forget anything when he came back to life with new body parts. The speech was a retort to Clark wondering how Lex could call him Kal-El. Lex might have forgotten it considering all he went through but he didn't...that's why Tess used the mind wipe. The flashbacks showed what Lex will be losing. When he walked away he was a different man which was demonstrated by him being a president, not an enemy to Superman or the head of an evil corporation working with the Legion of Doom etc. Smallville could have used so many images to show that Lex was his old self...but they used him as a president. Even with what we saw before we can't assume he's evil...or if he is he still isn't SV-Lex.

Hopefully when the comic series comes out we get some answers. I hope Lex gets his memories back (instead of just becoming evil which essentially makes him a new character) even though that still won't change that Michael Rosembaum's work on the show amounted to nothing given how the show ended. At least the comic can give some people some comfort by undoing some of the idiocy SV gave us.

[the jester]

Michael Rosembaum's work on the show was awesome and will always be awesome the thing is since day one of smallville everyone knew how it was going end Clark as Superman and Lex as the villain but as the show went on and the friendship got cooler the audience was starting to deny the future of Clark and Lex as much as the characters themselves. Lex becoming president doesn't demonstrate him being a different man he was shown becomming president way back in season 1. And to me the flashbacks were to show the events that led Lex to who he has become in the end. That scene is subjective and if you look at the scene and choose the explanation that you like the least then hey thats ok. I feel it was a great ending for Lex repressing the past and looking toward the future the making of a true villain

[BoyScout-ManOfTomorrow]

Yes we knew Clark and Lex would end up as villains. The point is Smallville premise was that Clark and Lex started out as friends and knew each other closely. When Lex found out about Clark's secret that was a turning point. A point of no return. Smallville actually had to chance to do something revolutionary by making the Superman's arch nemesis Lex Luthor and their interaction be more personal. And up until the finale it was just that. It feels that they jumped the shark and were sellouts to the very Smallville was all about.

I saw the season 1 presidency as something Clark should stop. When Lex Luthor got to be president in the SV universe the game was already lost. This was demonstrated with the season one episode Hourglass and was a looming threat in S5. Had Lex won the end of the world would have been that much closer. Again in S7 we saw a vision of what could be. When Lex was president the world ended again. Having Lex be president at the end of the series after so much teasing just feels so anti-climatic! Lex should have returned, usurp the U.S presidency while Darkseid was attacking. Lex should have helped with the invasion. And when Clark beat Darkseid he would have also saved earth from Lex. Even that is far fetched but at least it would have kept with the show's theme of the world ending while Lex was in power. Having the show end with Lex accomplishing his goals but not seeing what happens next (on the TV-show) feels such a copout.

We gotta agree to disagree with the mindwipe. Tess said the world before this moment won't exist to Lex and then we saw his memories burning. Yes, the memories are literally burning away as Lex is losing it all to become the "villain of the story". Seeing the LexCorp logo appear doesn't mean anything because it's just a visual tease. Lex's character is going through the exact opposite of becoming Lex. It doesn't matter if Lex is wearing the "evil" black glove when his motivation being the president is completely different without his memories.

I can buy that Lex is a bad guy at the end scene even if I don't agree with putting him as the president...But he is a completely different character now based on the decisions he did post-mindwipe. We don't see him retaining his memories...if he does then the mindwipe was pointless. One way or the other the mindwipe was pointless. The Smallville comic can explain/retcon/ignore this, it doesn't matter. Smallville as a TV-show dropped the ball with one of it's pivotal characters right before the end.

[Supsfan]

Yes we knew Clark and Lex would end up as villains. The point is Smallville premise was that Clark and Lex started out as friends and knew each other closely. When Lex found out about Clark's secret that was a turning point. A point of no return. Smallville actually had to chance to do something revolutionary by making the Superman's arch nemesis Lex Luthor and their interaction be more personal. And up until the finale it was just that. It feels that they jumped the shark and were sellouts to the very Smallville was all about

I think the main problem with the way Smallville had Clark and Lex interact was there was no possible way they could come up with a good ending to satisfy everybody. From the Pilot episode it always bugged me a bit that whenever i watched Clark and Lex the show basically set itself up for a huge problem how to properly finish the storyline. In general that's probably why the way they did end it didn't bug me as much as others because for the most part I couldn't envision a good way to end it(having Clark be Superman and Lex be the villain of the story).

I always thought the show might have been smarter having Lex be the same age as Clark and have them be rivals/butting heads from the get go

[nate-dog1701d]

At the end of the day, I wish the clone had just grown up to become the real Lex Luthor rather than turn into Conner. If they were really that concerned about Lex knowing Clark's identity, they could easily have made the clone forget certain things while still maintaining the impact of Lex's relationship with Clark.

I don't think Lex's line about not forgetting memories should be overemphasized, especially not when we were clearly shown that his memories were being ripped from him. I'd like to think he'll recover them (heck, he can just do whatever he did to download the clones with their memories), but like BoyScout said, what was the point? Why did this need to happen at all? How does it add anything to the Smallville story?

[Supsfan]

At the end of the day, I wish the clone had just grown up to become the real Lex Luthor rather than turn into Conner. If they were really that concerned about Lex knowing Clark's identity, they could easily have made the clone forget certain things while still maintaining the impact of Lex's relationship with Clark.

I actually think the show had a great way to set up Lex being bad and not knowing Clark's secret. The show should have developed a plot in Season 8 of Tess finding Lex and nursing him back to health. I would stretch this plot out for an entire season(showing the progressing of Lex's being nursed back from a coma like condition), basically with 2 minutes devoted to the storyline every 3-4 episodes. At the end of the season you could have a Lex Luthor fully recovered appear in the Season 8 final and be the main villain of Season 9(& 10). Of coarse you most likely would have to hire a new actor but you can just claim the events of Artic lead to him looking different and then say that Lex has amnesia from what happened during that time so he doesn't remember seeing Clark at the Fortress.

I think the show was so hellbent that only MR could be the show's Lex Luthor that they threw a perfectly good storyline down the drain. I know some people might agree with them that MR was the only guy who could play the character on the show but I think if you turn S9 Lex Luthor into a pure badass(much like S1-3 Lionel) you would counteract alot of that negativity.

[nate-dog1701d]

I think the show was so hellbent that only MR could be the show's Lex Luthor that they threw a perfectly good storyline down the drain. I know some people might agree with them that MR was the only guy who could play the character on the show but I think if you turn S9 Lex Luthor into a pure badass(much like S1-3 Lionel) you would counteract alot of that negativity.

That's something I guess I'd have to see before I could judge it, but my gut reaction is no, I don't want to see anyone besides Rosenbaum play this Lex Luthor.

[MozartRequiem]

thejester: I totally agree with most of your analysis! A lot of it is what I've been saying too regarding Lex and his memories. I truly believe we are meant to believe Lex is still the same Lex but just doesn't understand the reasons why anymore.

I really like your symbolism with Lex walking away from the past and embracing the future. I don't see Lex Luthor letting go of his past without a fight though. We all know Lex's tenacity, and like you said, Lionel mentioned that Lex's obsession with the past is a weakness. I see that as being one of Lex's big weaknesses post-mindwipe. I believe Lex would do everything in his power to uncover the truth and remember "why do I feel this connection to Superman? Why do I hate him so much?"

Once he realizes that he can never fully remember, he creates justifications for his hatred and that brings us full-circle to comic book Lex Luthor, in particular the Lex of "Lex Luthor: Man of Steel" who turns his hatred for Superman into a philosophical/moralistic stance to cover up his own personal feelings. IMO.

Everyone else makes great points regarding the unnecessary nature on the wipe and I totally agree with that too (that it was pretty unnecessary) but I believe that this is the interpretation that we are meant to take home with us even if it could have been executed a bit better.

I think Lex Luthor will always remain Lex because his past still made him who he is, even if he doesn't have full access to it. Just like what you said, the jester. And now we will see how it's handled in the comic book

----- Added 20 Minutes later -----

And I particularly like what you said here, jester: "They build up and lead to who Lex really is now.The flashbacks end and we are left with the true comic book Lex with full knowledge of who he is and what he's going to be."

That's a GREAT way of looking at it. I believe they meant it to come across that way as well. IMO they were trying to tell us: "This is the story of Lex Luthor and how he came to be. Now we know why he is who he is. He just does not."

[Lucky Luke]

You actually make a very good point here. Although I still think the writers could have done a better job at portraying it.

[BoyScout-ManOfTomorrow]

And I particularly like what you said here, jester: "They build up and lead to who Lex really is now.The flashbacks end and we are left with the true comic book Lex with full knowledge of who he is and what he's going to be."

That's a GREAT way of looking at it. I believe they meant it to come across that way as well. IMO they were trying to tell us: "This is the story of Lex Luthor and how he came to be. Now we know why he is who he is. He just does not."

Isn't this contradicting? How can Lex be his comic book self if he doesn't remember it? And he really doesn't given Tess' dialogue and the effect of the flashbacks actually burning away. Having Lex be the villain without knowledge of his character arc is against Smallville's theme of nature versus nurture. It's as if Lex was born to be bad since he'll be evil whether he remembers his choices or not.

[MozartRequiem]

Isn't this contradicting? How can Lex be his comic book self if he doesn't remember it? And he really doesn't given Tess' dialogue and the effect of the flashbacks actually burning away. Having Lex be the villain without knowledge of his character arc is against Smallville's theme of nature versus nurture. It's as if Lex was born to be bad since he'll be evil whether he remembers his choices or not.

Oh I get where you're coming from, BoyScout, but no I didn't mean he's simply "born evil". That would strip Lex's whole character arc of all its build-up, and as you probably guessed, his arc is my favorite one on the show so I'd loathe that. No what I meant was just basically the same theory that you and I have debated about in previous threads, the idea that Lex has all the same emotions but doesn't have the concrete details of his memories to help him understand why. Think of the movie "Memento" for instance. The main character can't create new memories, but he says that he still knows who he is and he's still the same person, etc. It's also akin to an amnesia victim who still has the same personality but just can't remember the details of why. I've heard of people with amnesia who have the same skills as well but don't recall how they learned them. Example: I heard of an amnesia victim who played the piano with amazing skill but didn't remember where he learned it.

The other example I constantly refer to is people like Ted Bundy. Bundy killed so many women and had serious issues with sexuality, respectability, and abuse/torture. However, he did not seem to know WHY he was the way he was. He always told people he was not abused as a child, and seemed to genuinely not remember that he really HAD been abused as a child. It was believed by psychologists that he repressed his memories. But he was still the same person due to these traumatic events. Like Lex, he just wouldn't remember the specifics of why he feels these emotions.

Again I truly think they were trying to do this with Lex. Execution could have been better but I'm not arguing in favor of execution. I'm just looking at all the things we're given such as:

-The aforementioned theme of "nature vs. nurture": the show has ALWAYS emphasized "nurture" over nature. I see no reason why they'd suddenly switch the theme with Lex to "it's simply his nature". Makes no sense...

-The theme of our past and how our past shapes us: a hugely prevalent theme in the show and in "Finale" in particular.

-Lex's arc throughout the show: why would the writers intentionally erase or ignore the arc they all worked so hard on throughout the years to make so epic and tragic? They wouldn't, IMO. So again it makes sense that they would be thinking "Lex is still Lex, just without the specifics of why".

-Use of words like "paralyzes cognitive recognition" rather than "wipes all memories".

-"That's the thing about memories: you can't forget them".

Now I think BoyScout that you and I have debated about all of these points before and you always have excellent counterarguments too but just wanted to reiterate my points on here for anyone who hasn't read through our debates on the other threads haha.

----- Added 41 Seconds later -----

You actually make a very good point here. Although I still think the writers could have done a better job at portraying it.

Agreed, Lucky Luke, one of my few critiques of an otherwise masterful finale IMO.

[BoyScout-ManOfTomorrow]

^ You raise up good points. It's true, personality and skills don't change even with amnesia. However I'd argue that your skills and personality do not determine what the person ends up becoming. They might guide them to a certain path but it's not the same as decision making. Decisions made because certain actions took place in the past caused by friends and family, the enviroment. Kinda like how Harry Potter and Voldemort had similar traits & skills but Harry didn't end up in Slytherin because he asked not to. If a mindwiped Harry would get sorted again he might end up in Slytherin because he wouldn't remember his friends or enemies or information Gryffindor and Slytherin that made him make the choice in the first place.

SV already switched the theme with Clark Luthor. An anti-Clark who was raised by Lionel. He killed and terrorized but because it was convinient to the plot he turned good. And no, chokeslamming Tess through a glass and about to drop her off a buolding does not equal love.

Ignoring Lex's arc doesn't make sense but then again the writing on the show doesn't make sense a lot of times. Kelly and Brian weren't producers in the Al & Miles Lex Luthor era. Rosembaum wasn't returning for the show for the longest time either. Giving his character the axe just when the show was about to be over doesn't sound that far fetched imo.

Smallville was all about the why and how. Making Lex forget it is the exact opposite. If Lex does indeed end up evil again because of his skills and personality drove him to it...I think it would have been for the wrong reasons because he can't remember the actions behind the choices. He's being evil because he doesn't know any better. Literally.

Smallville's been wrong before with it's science. I think the last time was regarding Conner and something to do with his aging. I think they chose the words because they sounded cool. Even if that wasn't the case they should have concentrated more on Tess' lines about the world not existing to him. Just make him forget the last few years of mostly offscreen death. Make him forget the finale of S7. That's it. Everything else could have remained. Lex's lines about forgetting memories to me meant that he didn't forget Clark's secret after Lex's rebirth. He obviously didn't remember it after the mind wipe so I see no reason to assume he'd obtain any of the other memories. The show didn't tell us. It gave us visual clues that fall flat given in what state Lex is. They have new meanings now. Perhaps evil but not the same evil that Lex was prior.

[the jester]

Story wise Lex had to lose his memories cause he was the villain and villains have to get their comeupins in the end and losing his friendship(memories) with Clark is what Lex lost for all his evil deeds. Story wise isn't it more important that Clark has the memories of Lex to better deal with him in the future then Lex the villain knowing who Superman really is. I don't think Lex would honor knowing the secret he would have used it to hurt Clark cause he is a true villain and there was many of times Lex showed he'd betray Clark. Shattered the first thing he did after seeing Clark's powers was tell the doctors what Clark did so they wouldn't think he was crazy or theres Requiem or Lazarus (I don't want to hear the clone isn't Lex comment the clone is a avatar for Lex ) my point is Lex was by far the best character on the show but he made the wrong choices and it doesn't matter if it's Lionel or Clark's fault Lex made the choices and he had to pay up in the end. I don't think Lex was born evil but he was born to become a supervillain and like clark nothing was going to change that his family was screwed up so he made friends with Clark and like Lex said the friendship helped keep the darkness at bay but nothing could stop Lex's fate of being evil it would have happened because Lex deep down wants power and more importantly control.

[BoyScout-ManOfTomorrow]

Getting away with killing Tess and being a free man to run and succeed in getting the president's seat doesn't sound like a villain getting what he deserves. Imo Lex and Darkseid should have been allies in similar fashion how Luthor used to ally himself with Brainiac. Superman would have beaten Lex and he'd spill the beans on some crucial information about Darkseid. Lex would keep his memories and walk out free but couldn't reveal Clark's secret because of some leverage Clark has on him.

I don't think we have misunderstandings about Lex becoming evil. I'd just add that even though it might have been Lex's "fate" to become evil it doesn't mean he doesn't have a choice in the matter. When you take that journey of choices away you lose the character. Or are you suggesting that Lex's deep down needs for power and control are in his nature ("born to become supervillain")? Because again, that would defeat the point of what Smallville was going for all this time.