"PARALYZES Cognitive Recognition"

[MozartRequiem]

I'm probably beating a dead horse here with my theory, but I was just thinking about how interesting it is that the writers chose the word "PARALYZES" for Lex's "cognitive recognition" or memories.

Doesn't it seem that the word "paralyzes" leaves it open to interpretation how much Lex will remember in the future? If they wanted to make it clear-cut that Lex loses all his memories and DOESN'T gain them back Tess would have said, "this serum makes you lose ALL your memories" or "gives you PERMANENT amnesia".

So again, clearly the writers realized we would all be wondering how much Lex remembers and would draw our own conclusions from that. This is another piece of evidence that points to the argument that the Lex Luthor we see 7 years later as president is basically the same Lex that we grew to love and hate during "Smallville", albeit probably without the concrete knowledge that Clark Kent=Superman.

Thoughts?

[BoyScout-ManOfTomorrow]

But after Tess' line Lex asks how much he will remember. Tess answers: "Nothing. The world before this moment won't exist to you."

If Lex does regain his memory we will not be seeing it. And if he does the mindwipe in the Finale will be pointless...ergo Lex is a blank slate capable for a new beginning (either good or bad but it won't be SV's Lex). All we know is that he's into politics, has a company named LexCorp (implied) and is the president giving the Daily Planet a hard time.

[Blue85]

If indeed the writers intentionally left it open for interpretation, that's another mark against them. Can't they just make a stand and tell the story? Why leave so many things "open to interpretation?"
-- Are Ollie and Chloe together in the future?
-- Do Lois and Clark actually get married?
-- Clark in the suit
-- Ollie alive?
-- Lex's memories resurfacing?
etc.

A series finale is supposed to wrap up story lines, not leave them open or create more unanswered questions.

[MozartRequiem]

"But after Tess' line Lex asks how much he will remember. Tess answers: "Nothing. The world before this moment won't exist to you.""

Yes but given the "paralyzes" choice of words--as well as Lex's previous line about "memories"--it seems they left the door open for this to be a temporary amnesia. Like Clark in "Blank". He remembered nothing, not even his last name. But he started to regain some of the same feelings and personality traits as he did before and then eventually he regained everything except the last 24 hours.

"if he does the mindwipe in the Finale will be pointless"

Well as much as I don't care for how they handled the mindwipe, I don't think it would be rendered pointless if Lex regained MOST of his memories. The main point of it is for us to assume Lex doesn't remember any hard proof that Clark Kent=Superman. So Lex could easily regain everything prior to the moments where he learned Clark was the Traveler, or he could remember things in a scattered way where 2 and 2 don't add up when it comes to Clark being Superman....

"All we know is that he's into politics, has a company named LexCorp (implied) and is the president giving the Daily Planet a hard time."

Yeah but these are classic Lex Luthor traits. Again, I'm not defending the way they did it necessarily (because I agree with you that this aspect of the finale could have been handled much better, one of the ONLY things I feel could've been done differently) but him as president in the iconic suit harassing the Planet and looking sinister all seem to indicate Lex has returned to being THE Lex Luthor we know and love to hate. IMO of course .

[Vergon6]

"But after Tess' line Lex asks how much he will remember. Tess answers: "Nothing. The world before this moment won't exist to you.""

Yes but given the "paralyzes" choice of words--as well as Lex's previous line about "memories"--it seems they left the door open for this to be a temporary amnesia. Like Clark in "Blank". He remembered nothing, not even his last name. But he started to regain some of the same feelings and personality traits as he did before and then eventually he regained everything except the last 24 hours.

"if he does the mindwipe in the Finale will be pointless"

Well as much as I don't care for how they handled the mindwipe, I don't think it would be rendered pointless if Lex regained MOST of his memories. The main point of it is for us to assume Lex doesn't remember any hard proof that Clark Kent=Superman. So Lex could easily regain everything prior to the moments where he learned Clark was the Traveler, or he could remember things in a scattered way where 2 and 2 don't add up when it comes to Clark being Superman....

"All we know is that he's into politics, has a company named LexCorp (implied) and is the president giving the Daily Planet a hard time."

Yeah but these are classic Lex Luthor traits. Again, I'm not defending the way they did it necessarily (because I agree with you that this aspect of the finale could have been handled much better, one of the ONLY things I feel could've been done differently) but him as president in the iconic suit harassing the Planet and looking sinister all seem to indicate Lex has returned to being THE Lex Luthor we know and love to hate. IMO of course .

Yeah I think they may have used that terminology to leave it open ended. Basically I think in a lot of ways, they tried to please everyone by trying to have it both ways, with leaving so much open ended whether Lex got his memory back, and if he did get his memory back, how much memory he did get back. Whether it's all, some, or none.

[BoyScout-ManOfTomorrow]

Yes but given the "paralyzes" choice of words--as well as Lex's previous line about "memories"--it seems they left the door open for this to be a temporary amnesia. Like Clark in "Blank". He remembered nothing, not even his last name. But he started to regain some of the same feelings and personality traits as he did before and then eventually he regained everything except the last 24 hours.

The main point of it is for us to assume Lex doesn't remember any hard proof that Clark Kent=Superman. So Lex could easily regain everything prior to the moments where he learned Clark was the Traveler, or he could remember things in a scattered way where 2 and 2 don't add up when it comes to Clark being Superman....

Yeah but these are classic Lex Luthor traits. Again, I'm not defending the way they did it necessarily (because I agree with you that this aspect of the finale could have been handled much better, one of the ONLY things I feel could've been done differently) but him as president in the iconic suit harassing the Planet and looking sinister all seem to indicate Lex has returned to being THE Lex Luthor we know and love to hate. IMO of course .

We saw Clark regain his memories but we didn't get a confirmation with Lex even seven years later. What happened in offscreen or after the show is imo irrevelant.

If the point was to erase a select part of Lex's memory, namely that he knows Clark is an alien then they should have taken the time to give us a scene like in Pandora. If Lex does regain his memory the windwipe will be pointless, if he does but will not remember Clark it would be too convinient and lazy. Tess is no Zatanna and this is not Identity Crisis.

Okay, let's assume that Lex regains his memories and starts the road to evil again (and for the sake of argument say he is evil at the end of the Finale)...it's still not the same road or journey (because Lex would not repeat his mistakes) that we saw in Smallville. It still erases SV-Lex from the show.
If Lex has turned over a new leaf (either because of amnesia or he has regained some of his memory) but still ends up evil with power corrupting him (being a senator, president, CEO of LexCorp) and he finds himself opposing Superman and he becomes evil...well...it's still not a journey of SV-Lex that we saw. That's either a new character or arc about doing things differently.

Lex might end at the same place where SV-Lex did, he might wear the same clothes but the journey makes him a different man. Like how both Clark and Kara end up being Superman and Supergirl but are still individuals partly because of the journey they took to get there...and for the most part we saw it happen (with Clark anyways) onscreen.

[SSJConan]

[url=http://www.ksitetv.com/forums/showthread.php?160333-My-recut-version-of-the-series-finale]My own recut version of "Finale" takes an interesting detour with Lex's mind-wipe I think some of you may find interesting, can be seen here.

If indeed the writers intentionally left it open for interpretation, that's another mark against them. Can't they just make a stand and tell the story? Why leave so many things "open to interpretation?"

There's a good saying, "less is more".

-- Clark in the suit

We got the Clark Kent/Kal-El character in the suit, it was Tom Welling the actor whom we only saw in half of it.

[MozartRequiem]

"Yeah I think they may have used that terminology to leave it open ended. Basically I think in a lot of ways, they tried to please everyone by trying to have it both ways, with leaving so much open ended whether Lex got his memory back, and if he did get his memory back, how much memory he did get back. Whether it's all, some, or none. "

Totally agreed, Vergon6! Again this is not a thread about the execution of this idea, but rather the actual idea itself and the pieces of dialog that implied it was open-ended even if this could've been better demonstrated. To me, dialog such as "memories: you can't forget them" and "paralyzes cognitive recognition" as well as the dialog throughout the episode, the season, and the entire series about how our upbringing and past shape the person who we are not our genes, etc. all seems to point toward Lex still having some semblance of himself and his experiences in some way, shape or form later. It's just a matter of "how much does he regain?" etc.

"We saw Clark regain his memories but we didn't get a confirmation with Lex even seven years later. What happened in offscreen or after the show is imo irrevelant."

But it's not irrelevant if these pieces of dialog were actually meant to make us pontificate about it. Just as the arrows in Chloe's closet intentionally make us wonder "did Oliver and Chloe end up together?" etc. Or to use a film example, the ending of "Inception". I won't spoil it for those who haven't seen it but it definitely raises more questions than answers--intentionally so--so that fans can be left discussing what did or didn't happen off-screen, etc.

"If the point was to erase a select part of Lex's memory, namely that he knows Clark is an alien then they should have taken the time to give us a scene like in Pandora. If Lex does regain his memory the windwipe will be pointless, if he does but will not remember Clark it would be too convinient and lazy. Tess is no Zatanna and this is not Identity Crisis."

No argument there. It would've been great to have had Tess use some sort of magic that she got from Zatana to erase Lex's memories of his suspicions of Clark actually!

Aaaand...."Dexter" is on (my favorite show on TV now that "Smallville" is not on) so I must be off! But I'll reply to the rest of these great posts later. Cheeri-o, all.

[BoyScout-ManOfTomorrow]

But it's not irrelevant if these pieces of dialog were actually meant to make us pontificate about it. Just as the arrows in Chloe's closet intentionally make us wonder "did Oliver and Chloe end up together?" etc. Or to use a film example, the ending of "Inception". I won't spoil it for those who haven't seen it but it definitely raises more questions than answers--intentionally so--so that fans can be left discussing what did or didn't happen off-screen, etc.

The ending of Inception benefitted the movie's theme of what's real and what's not? Like how The Matrix asks if you've ever seen a dream you thought was real. Smallville was the coming of age story with it's two main characters (later more with Lois). To not show their end point, leave it blurry or erase their journey would be against the very idea of the show imo.

If we look at Smallville in the context of Superman we know what will happen so it is pointless to play around and raising questions that shouldn't be asked in the first place.
If we look Smallville on it's own merits then we still see an arc of a hero turning into a superhero and a man becoming a supervillain...but for whatever reason Smallville didn't go all in with it's premise and developement.

We get blurry shots of our hero in the main costume that holds no emotional attachment to us other than we know it's THE suit. Sure they tried to build the suit up with expectations but they never delivered in the way a lot of people hoped they would. We have Lex undergo an amnesia where he forgets everything but somehow he ends up still in the same place as before the mindwipe because we know that he is THE Lex Luthor. He just doesn't know Clark...why? Because THE Lex Luthor never knew either.

[the jester]

The way I see it is the neurotoxin didn't erase Lex's memories but repress them. It mirrors the fact that Clark had to embrace all his memories to become the hero Lex had to repress all his memories to beome the villain. I think the way the showed the flashback clips showes he still has his memories but he's just detached from his memories it's like watching a movie with no sound he has all the emotion with none of the details of his memories. For all the people who say that the part with Lex and Tess makes 7 years of Lex being on smallville pointless I disagree look at the flashback clips this way all of those moments from begining to end form Lex into the villain he is, and we are left knowing exactly who Lex is and was.

[TessLuthor]

I thought this whole scene was stupid. Most of the finale was. So basically the canonical Lex is not our Lex. Our lex died in season 8. This is not Lex its a clone. And its not even a clone with Lexs memories! No I dont think it makes seven years of him on the show pointless but it does mean that from day one he's not actually the villain of the story since its a clone of him not him that goes on to be Clarks nemesis.

[BoyScout-ManOfTomorrow]

It mirrors the fact that Clark had to embrace all his memories to become the hero Lex had to repress all his memories to beome the villain. For all the people who say that the part with Lex and Tess makes 7 years of Lex being on smallville pointless I disagree look at the flashback clips this way all of those moments from begining to end form Lex into the villain he is, and we are left knowing exactly who Lex is and was.

I don't this bit about embracing and repressing memories...

The moments we see are indeed character defining...but they are meant to illustrate what Lex is losing. Like Tess said, the world before this moment won't exist to Lex. If he becomes a villain (and I do mean if since he got a brand new start and we don't clearly see him as a villain in the final scenes) it's because of something that's happened to him post-mindwipe in a post-mindwipe world.

Either Lex is mindwiped or he's not and he can remember Clark's secret. Either way the mindwipe is a fail, they should have let Lex know everything and decide to keep it a secret (LIKE HE SAID HE WOULD IN THE SCENE WITH CLARK)...

[the jester]

I just can't see that scene as being as literal as everyone else like what Tess says the world before this moment won't exist to you that was her way of saying you have a second chance but I think what about what Lex said earlier about not forgetting memories and if the flashbacks were what Lex was losing don't you think it would have been shown in a reverse order going from the present to the begining no it was a build up to who he is now. and it was never stated to be a mind wipe people just don't use there imagination to see beyond whats presented to them you guys would rather criticze i guess olivers line in homecomming fits. I will defend smallville the way they reinterpret real superman stories like the first half of the 10th season with Alexander who was a clone of Lex but because of having Lex's memories he was Lex. Look at the superman stories in the early 90's the real Lex cloned himself then claimed to be a YOUNGER son of himself named ALEXANDER who even still had his red hair and what happen when that clone died well Lex came back after making a deal with the devil in Smallville Darkseid was compared to devil and he brought back Lex. Lex getting Lionel's heart was cool too since Lionel was given the true origins of comic Lex so now Lex will always have the "true" Lex in his heart figuratively speaking

[BoyScout-ManOfTomorrow]

I wouldn't like to see it as Lex losing his whole character developement on the show, I really don't. But that's what they gave us. The world before this moment won't exist to you is a mind wipe with a fancier set of words. You can defend that this needed to be done but I really don't see how anyone can deny that this happened. And if Lex is supposed to have his memories back then the mindwipe was pointless.

The circumstances leading for Lex to becoming a villain are kept from us. If he is the villain seven years later when he's president then he's a different character than the one we, the audience, watched on Smallville.

I liked the scene with Oliver but in fairness, the real Oliver Queen would have probably sided himself with the arm chair critics. SV Ollie pretty much took a jab at the freedom of speech. Making a deal with Slade was another ooc moment from him.

And after Alexander lost his memories he became Conner. The same happened in the finale. Lex became a character with a new chance in life. He wasn't Superman's enemy anymore or if he was the developement that took him there was never seen onscreen. Even if he regained his memories it's still the last stepping stone we never saw on the actual show.

[MozartRequiem]

"The way I see it is the neurotoxin didn't erase Lex's memories but repress them.....he has all the emotion with none of the details of his memories."

Exactly! Jester, you and I are on the same page here. Especially considering Lex's quote about how you can't forget memories, which you mentioned also, as well as all the other evidence I sited from the episode and from the series as a whole. The theme of the episode was memories and how they shape us. Why in the world would the writers strip Lex completely of them knowing they made Lex who he is? The answer: they wouldn't. That's why they peppered the episode with hints that they'll always be there inside Lex somewhere. That's why they hammered home the idea of nurture making us, not nature, throughout not just episode but the course of the series.

That ties in to what I was about to say to you, BoyScout...you said:
"And after Alexander lost his memories he became Conner."

And to that I say: Precisely So why would anyone think the writers would have Lex lose his memories completely/permanently if they JUST had that arc with Connor and showed that without those memories, the Lex Luthor we all know would not exist? To me it's clear that the writers wanted us to know Lex is still evil in the future, with him being president and with strong arming the Daily Planet etc. So what I'm trying to say is this: while the writers may not have done the best job communicating what they were trying to say, it's clear to me what they meant to say.

"The world before this moment won't exist to you is a mind wipe with a fancier set of words."

But then how do you interpret "that's the thing about memories, you can't forget them" and the use of the words "cognitive recognition" rather than "full memory loss"? See what I'm trying to say is that you would be right, BoyScout, if Tess's words were the only ones they gave us in the episode regarding Lex's memories, but those were not in fact the only words they gave us regarding his memories and the other quotes seem to suggest contrary things to the Tess quote you keep citing.

"And if Lex is supposed to have his memories back then the mindwipe was pointless."

But what about all the amnesia examples I cited in earlier posts? What about Clark in "Blank" still making the same choices? Or Lex finding his way back to some of his memories but not all of them in season three post memory-wipe in "Asylum"? Or even the real life examples I used like Ted Bundy still being a merciless serial killer despite the fact that he didn't have the memories of early childhood abuse but only had the emotions associated with them? Those all seem to be what they were going for with Lex. Again I'm not defending the way it was done, merely trying to express what I think they tried--however successfully or unsuccessfully--to communicate with us regarding Lex's fate.

And again for the record, just because I critique this aspect doesn't mean I'm critiquing "Finale" as a whole. In fact it was one of my top ten, posibly top five, episodes of the series.

"the real Oliver Queen would have probably sided himself with the arm chair critics."

But isn't Oliver known for being super liberal in the comics? He seemed to be critiquing the more conservative people in Metropolis IMO.