Lois: Clark's mother or fiancee?

[Shootza]

Loeb is an excellent writer. It's just funny that you say that you don't think his Lois is like the Lois in Smallville as Jeph himself has said that he thinks that Erica's version of Lois is the closest live action version available to the comics.

We can agree to disagree on Clark.

Exactly, heck Jeph as recently at the Comic Con in '09 said that, Smallville's Lois is closest version to the comics.

[Audrey229]

MHO, the Crossfire kiss and Lois planning her wedding with paper doll cut outs of the Justice League while talking about secret identities as if everybody around her was deaf and blind are two moments that should have taken place in other settings. But I think that is more a meta issue (budget, sets, etc)

Well, and I think that was part of the point of the Crossfire kiss. You know? It was an impulsive decision on Clark's part. He didn't plan to kiss her in the middle of the bullpen. It just happened. If he had taken a minute to think about it...he might have made a different choice.

[BlueRanger]

You've never heard of opposites attract?

The things you just listed are not problems for the characters in the narrative.

Both of these characters have expressed openly that this is what they LOVE about each other. What you've described as detractors are things that the characters have described as being part of the attraction.

.

I do not say its a problem the way you are interpreting it, its not a problem when people of complete opposite are in relationships, of course, its just my personal observation that they tend to go overboard, with showing Lois as too assertive, independent and too controlling at the expense of clark, he comes of as being passive and a pushover. This is a TV show, not RL, the writers have to show that there is somewhat an equal relationship here to the audience.

They dont have to change either of the two character's personalities, its what makes them, themselves, but they need to do it in a way that it doesnt compromise a character's individuality or development. Masquerade was a good way foward.

[Audrey229]

“I mean, she’s different from Clark and Superman, that’s for sure. She’s bold, she’s brassy, and she really has no sense of boundaries. She’ll eat off your plate without asking (or noticing). She’ll storm into the men’s room if the line to the women’s room is too long. Her dad was a general, and she doesn’t completely understand that she’s not one, too. One of the reasons Superman is instantly attracted to her is because she constantly surprises him, and he’s hard to surprise.”

I find it hilarious that the examples that Waid listed as being part of Lois having no sense of boundaries----her eating off of Clark's plate and storming into the men's room when the line to the women's room is too long---are things that Lois on Smallville has done much to Clark's amusement/annoyance. haha.

"Lois...why are you in the men's room?" LOL

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----

I do not say its a problem the way you are interpreting it, its not a problem when people of complete opposite are in relationships, of course, its just my personal observation that they tend to go overboard, with showing Lois as too assertive, independent and too controlling at the expense of clark, he comes of as being passive and a pushover. This is a TV show, not RL, the writers have to show that there is somewhat an equal relationship here to the audience.

Yes, I understand what you are saying. I just disagree that the show hasn't done that. I think that Clark has always been written his strongest with Lois. I find that outside of confronting a vilian---Clark is always his most assertive with Lois. He never backs down from her. And that's been going on since Season 4.

[supes0]

Well, and I think that was part of the point of the Crossfire kiss. You know? It was an impulsive decision on Clark's part. He didn't plan to kiss her in the middle of the bullpen. It just happened. If he had taken a minute to think about it...he might have made a different choice.

Fair enough. The crossfire kiss was an impulsive move and I could see that happening at the Daily Planet. Though I wish they would have shown more reaction from the bull pen, like they did when Lois was about to clock Cat in Isis. I loved how the people in the background stopped for a second to watch.

But the Masquerade scene was just misplaced completely, mho!

----- Added 4 Minutes later -----

Well if you read Loeb's work you'll see she's exactly like that.

This is what Loeb says to guys who think like that:

"I love when she gives Clark sh*t – nobody else gets to do that. I find it curious that when I write her that way, some folks think she's a b*tch. Go back and look at films where women had a little wit – the Katherine Hepburns and Lauren Bacalls and Myrna Loys –fantastic, strong women who were never b*tches. They were strong: Clark responds to that." - Jeph Loeb

And Loeb always speaks highly of Durance's Lois. Currently (mho), Simone Busiek, Loeb, Johns, Waid, and Rucka write some of the strongest Lois Lane of the comics. Many of them have positive things to say about Smallville's Lois. And, even though I can not stand what JMS did with Superman in "Grounded", I think his Lois in Earth One, even though she wasn't front and center, had a lot of Smallville Lois in her. I think Smallville Lois is a strong modern Lois and for me at least, my favorite live action yet.

I think the best thing is what Mark Waid has said about Lois:

“I mean, she’s different from Clark and Superman, that’s for sure. She’s bold, she’s brassy, and she really has no sense of boundaries. She’ll eat off your plate without asking (or noticing). She’ll storm into the men’s room if the line to the women’s room is too long. Her dad was a general, and she doesn’t completely understand that she’s not one, too. One of the reasons Superman is instantly attracted to her is because she constantly surprises him, and he’s hard to surprise.”

I loved Birthright.

[morrigan01]

It's even something that came up in the future in Homecoming, if I recall correctly. Wasn't the taboo of office relationships hinted at in this statement:

"We need to table this all until later. We cannot have people thinking things."

Exactly. I do wonder how many people understood what we saw with them at the DP in Homecoming. The times we got to see them being really affectionate at work were during moments when they were alone. First they were in a phone booth, but then Lois shut it all down quick with the line you noted above. She gave him a love-tap when it was going into the elevator, but there was no one around (as they now work on the 8th floor), but nothing really romantic physical-wise happened when they were in their own private office.

And the big making-out kiss? Happened when they were by themselves on the roof. Which, heck, in the mythos, is why the DP roof is "their" spot. It's the only time the two of them can really be "alone" at work.

In this episode? They started out together in the middle of the bullpen. Heck, people are already nitpicking that the two of them were talking about superhero things in the middle of the freaking bullpen in that opening scene. Would kissing have been more appropriate? After it already got them in trouble one before?

Next scene was the barn scene, in which there were kind of busy discussing something pertaining to their lives together and ended in a disagreement. So yeah, kinda not in the mood for it, and rightly so.

Next scene? Again DR bullpen. Final scene? Again, DP bullpen. The only semi-privacy they had was going into the copy room, and even then Lois was afraid of him pull out a new costume while they were there. And of course she only kissed him on the cheek - it's was probably the moist she knew she could get away with. Because, again, kissing in the middle of the bullpen is what probably started the gossip that ended up getting them fired just last season.

So yeah, Lois and Clark are trying to be professional at work. And, going by that future in Homecoming, it will probably reach a point where they wont even wear their rings when they're at work either. The most we've seen them alone together in a non-professional setting was the end of Collateral, in the final barn scene, and I thought they were both glowing with love and affection there, and rightly so.

[Sherl]

Well, and I think that was part of the point of the Crossfire kiss. You know? It was an impulsive decision on Clark's part. He didn't plan to kiss her in the middle of the bullpen. It just happened. If he had taken a minute to think about it...he might have made a different choice.

Yeah, I agree. Clark was actually going to talk to her, and most likely ask her on that second date. But Lois just kept talking LOL, so he just went for the kiss, to show her he was interested.

[Dyanara]

I do not say its a problem the way you are interpreting it, its not a problem when people of complete opposite are in relationships, of course, its just my personal observation that they tend to go overboard, with showing Lois as too assertive, independent and too controlling at the expense of clark, he comes of as being passive and a pushover. This is a TV show, not RL, the writers have to show that there is somewhat an equal relationship here to the audience.

They dont have to change either of the two character's personalities, its what makes them, themselves, but they need to do it in a way that it doesnt compromise a character's individuality or development. Masquerade was a good way foward.

I agree, perhaps if Clark didn't let Lois act like his mother it wouldn't be so bad. I don't rememer any other Lois being so clingy, cheerleaderesque, god worshipping, and mothering.
And I can't for the life of me determine what is making LnC in S10 so pathetic and nausiating. I don't want non-stop sex all the time, or make out after makeout; but they act like brother and sister or mother and son more than 2 people in love and about to get married.

[Audrey229]

]Fair enough. The crossfire kiss was an impulsive move and I could see that happening at the Daily Planet. Though I wish they would have shown more reaction from the bull pen, like they did when Lois was about to clock Cat in Isis. I loved how the people in the background stopped for a second to watch.

Yeah, I actually thought that was something they did well on "Lois and Clark." The one time that they literally made out in the bullpen....people noticed. People were literally like, "Umm...did everyone see them making out?" LOL

But the Masquerade scene was just misplaced completely, mho!

I was so amused when I was watching it that I didn't really find it to be odd....but yes, I can totally understand why it's misplaced. That opening scene could have been set at the farm.

[LuluG]

@ ginevrakent. I agree with most of your comments, but I still find the 'epic' Lois and Clark romance a tad underwhelming post-Icarus. Anyway, gotta go now. Have to study for exams.

[BoyScout-ManOfTomorrow]

Erica Durance is the closest and truest version of Lois Lane we've got in live action, heck including all the animated versions. I don't have anything against the actress or the character. It's just that Im not too fond of the way they are using her with Clark's.

Comics have continued and will continue in the future. What works in one medium might not work in the other. It's the final season. Clark is about to just become Superman. He is more unsure of himself than he was in S8 & 9 JMO. If that is the case, something is wrong with the writing and it will not be fixed with secondary characters constantly reminding and pushing him forward.

But that's just me personnally. To me Clark's character should be like Aragorn in Return of King (movie). He has learned his lessons, he isn't perfect but is determined. He may lack the crown (flight) and the sword (Superman suit), he isn't accepted as the king by everybody (Jor-el) but he himself knows it to be true and quite infact doesn't care. He just wants to do everything in his power to stop Sauron (Darkseid). Since Clark and Aragorn are both destined to do great things and are both challenged mentally by an external evil force (darkness, The Ring) I don't think the comparison isn't totally offbase.

[ginevrakent]

@ ginevrakent. I agree with most of your comments, but I still find the 'epic' Lois and Clark romance a tad underwhelming post-Icarus. Anyway, gotta go now. Have to study for exams.

Okay.

[Sherl]

And I can't for the life of me determine what is making LnC in S10 so pathetic and nausiating. I don't want non-stop sex all the time, or make out after makeout; but they act like brother and sister or mother and son more than 2 people in love and about to get married.

Seriously, any brother and sister/mother and son who act like that with each other look at each other like that belong either on a psych ward or in jail, lol. That's not maternal/fraternal love at all. To quote Stabler from SVU on an episode: "Lady, if I ever felt that kind of parental love towards my children I'd turn myself in to be arrested".

[Shootza]

And Loeb always speaks highly of Durance's Lois. Busiek, Loeb, Johns, Waid, Rucka and Waid write some of the strongest Lois Lane of the comics. Many of them have positive things to say about Smallville's Lois. And, even though I can not stand what JMS did with Superman in "Grounded", I think his Lois in Earth One, even though she wasn't front and center, had a lot of Smallville Lois in her. I think Smallville Lois is a strong modern Lois and for me at least, my favorite live action yet.

Best writers IMO, just recently Rucka and Sterling Gates (who's a writer for Supergirl series) tweeted about their love for Lois on Smallville. I'm on another comic book site and folks there are really enjoying Lois and Clark's portrayals on Smallville right now, they feel like its straight out of a comic book.

I loved Birthright.

Birthright is just brilliant, whenever I'm free at home I read that thing like no tomorrow. It never gets old.

[morrigan01]

Well if you read Loeb's work you'll see she's exactly like that.

This is what Loeb says to guys who think like that:

"I love when she gives Clark sh*t – nobody else gets to do that. I find it curious that when I write her that way, some folks think she's a b*tch. Go back and look at films where women had a little wit – the Katherine Hepburns and Lauren Bacalls and Myrna Loys –fantastic, strong women who were never b*tches. They were strong: Clark responds to that." - Jeph Loeb

And this is something I said wrt casting Lois for the new Superman movie, and why some people just do not get her character - because Lois' character is very much in the style of a old school "classic" movie star - Hepburn, Bacall, Russell.

You want to really understand who Lois Lane is? Then go watch classic films such as Bringing Up Baby, His Girl Friday and The Big Sleep. Because Lois's character is very much based on those three women in those three movies. She's of a style found only in the late 30s, early 40s - the time in which the core of her character was originally created. Yes, she got some more modern things about her that came later (such as being a mostly a tomboy and General's daughter); but her style, her bantering with Clark - hell, her romantic interaction with Clark, are all, at their core, very old school. Old school women who could very much hold their own with the men in those films.

People usually - unfortunately - just see Lois as supposing to be "spunky". Which is where people like Bryan Singer get the character wrong and end up just making her one-dimensional.