JOr-El disowned Clark

[Delacroix]

So, he put himself into a coma?

He broke his covenant with Jor-El, and as a result was put into a coma. Had he honored the agreement, he may have never been put into the coma.

I don't think Jonathan breaking a verbal contract with AI Jor-El means that Jor-El can do whatever he darned well pleases with him. JMO

I never said Jor-El was justified in his actions. All I'm saying is that JK's decisions had consequences. Breaking a promise to a presumably all-powerful alien being, regarding said being's own flesh and blood, isn't exactly in the best interest of one's health.

And lets not forget that prior to that, AI Jor-El threw Clark across a room and branded the family crest into his chest.

After his continued defiance. As I recall, Jor-El told Clark he needed to leave Smallville, else he'd end up hurting the one's he loved most. Yes, Jor-El tried to coerce Clark; but Clark wasn't going to comply regardless... perhaps Jor-El felt it necessary.

Sure he did. Clark was training with him in S9, how about then?

Yeah, S9... we were discussing early SV, not S9... Jor-El did, in fact, have 'sit-downs' with Clark once Clark finally put his rebellious, defiant attitude aside. And then Jor-El was able to give him all kinds of information and warnings about the dangers that were looming on the horizon even before the Fortress was built.

[hellokitty]

JK going into a coma was really his own doing, tbh, because he broke his contract with Jor-El.

I thought he went into a coma b/c Jor-El was essentially threatening his life (or it appeared so to me) in order to get Clark to go into the cave wall.

[Greenarrowjustice]

Yeah jor-el is a dirtbag...I mean he kidnapped a young girl - held her hostage for 15 years then had her brainwashed - pretend to be clarks cousin - all as a means to manipulate clark - then when plan a failed he killed her...Jor-el is an A1 charles Manson...

[Delacroix]

I thought he went into a coma b/c Jor-El was essentially threatening his life (or it appeared so to me) in order to get Clark to go into the cave wall.

JK made a pact with Jor-El to return Clark to Jor-El when the time was right. Jor-El's incarnation of Kara was a signal of that time, but then JK tried to interfere, effectively breaking their pact. So, Jor-El may have felt his hand was being forced, and he did what he felt he had to do.

Again, I'm not justifying Jor-El's methods. I'm simply considering his perspective instead of just vilifying him. The dude has much bigger fish to fry (Brainiac, Zod, Doomsday, Darkseid, etc) than the dysfunctional family dynamic taking place between him, the Kents, and Clark. Sitting around trying to pander to Clark's trust (which may never be possible anyhow) while the sky comes falling down probably takes a back seat to doing what he feels he must do in order to prevent said sky from falling down.

Yeah jor-el is a dirtbag...I mean he kidnapped a young girl - held her hostage for 15 years then had her brainwashed - pretend to be clarks cousin - all as a means to manipulate clark - then when plan a failed he killed her...Jor-el is an A1 charles Manson...

Is it made certain that Jor-El actually did this? From what I gather it was left open to interpretation--the writers failed to explain it through the story. All we really know is that fake Kara was a victim of the first meteor shower. For all we know she died that day... Perhaps Jor-El reincarnated her rather than holding her hostage.

[Kryptonian250]

Pa Kent he was I read that Pa Kent was specist. He believed that kindness and emotions were only felt by humans. He didn't know a thing about Krypton and Kryptonians. He believed that Kryptonians were cold and evil.

But that's not the case. Clark was a little wrong in defying AI Jor-El when he had Clark's and Earth's best interests at heart despite his unorthodox and sometimes cruel methods.

Clark has always been punished when he defied Jor-El.

1. Blowing up the ship in Season 2 thinking all his problems would go away. So Ma Kent lost the baby.

2. Pa Kent did not keep up his end of the bargain so he was put into a coma and Clark reprogrammed into Kal-El.

3. Martha also played a part in some of those times. She stopped Kal-El from getting the crystals that built the FOS.,

4. In Season 5, He gave Jor-El his word and promised he would be back to the FOS. But instead his Lana obsession led him to stay and check on her after the sun went down thereby being stripped of his powers. He dismissed him loosing his powers as his punishment and that everything was going to be okay but when that decision came back to haunt him 2 episodes later. Clark then took Pa Kent's body to the FOS in deleted scene and begged Jor-El to bring back but he refused.

Typically Clark has always thought Jor-El was out to hurt him but he's been a big idiot. He's always hated himself for being not human when he was never human in the first place.

Jor-El has not disowned Clark. He's testing him.

[tippership commander]

Well, lets hope so..

because if it's not a test- it's jor-el who's goign to end up having to be "proved wrong' like jonathan said

and jonathan hinted that Jor-El was serious about this.

meaning jor-El is back to the usual self of talking in threats and getting his way or the highway...


With the other Jor-E would have kicked him in the bucket, and upgraded him to do right..


Jonathan did a HECK of a more efficent job of moving Clark forward than Jor-el...

I am reminded of jor-El pretty much telling clark "TOo bad, you died" before Lois revived him....

Clark needs to superspeed into the fortress, grab the suit then get out, sueprjump a good mile up, set his HV to wide angle and melt the place.

Seriously, in your family, if your father thought you'd gotten "cocky"(and let's get serious, clark was moping till 2 years ago- he has NOT been getting cocky over time) , and then disowned you and kept making threats ...and did it year after year, while pulling stunts...

:shakes head:

["Lois I Never Lie"]

Well, lets hope so..

because if it's not a test- it's jor-el who's goign to end up having to be "proved wrong' like jonathan said

and jonathan hinted that Jor-El was serious about this.

meaning jor-El is back to the usual self of talking in threats and getting his way or the highway...


With the other Jor-E would have kicked him in the bucket, and upgraded him to do right..


Jonathan did a HECK of a more efficent job of moving Clark forward than Jor-el...

I am reminded of jor-El pretty much telling clark "TOo bad, you died" before Lois revived him....

Clark needs to superspeed into the fortress, grab the suit then get out, sueprjump a good mile up, set his HV to wide angle and melt the place.

Seriously, in your family, if your father thought you'd gotten "cocky"(and let's get serious, clark was moping till 2 years ago- he has NOT been getting cocky over time) , and then disowned you and kept making threats ...and did it year after year, while pulling stunts...

:shakes head:

He already done this at the end of Superman II, destroyed The Fortress with his heat vision so no one could use the chamber to take away his powers again!!!

[Kryptonian250]

Well, lets hope so..

because if it's not a test- it's jor-el who's goign to end up having to be "proved wrong' like jonathan said

and jonathan hinted that Jor-El was serious about this.

meaning jor-El is back to the usual self of talking in threats and getting his way or the highway...


With the other Jor-E would have kicked him in the bucket, and upgraded him to do right..


Jonathan did a HECK of a more efficent job of moving Clark forward than Jor-el...

I am reminded of jor-El pretty much telling clark "TOo bad, you died" before Lois revived him....

Clark needs to superspeed into the fortress, grab the suit then get out, sueprjump a good mile up, set his HV to wide angle and melt the place.

Seriously, in your family, if your father thought you'd gotten "cocky"(and let's get serious, clark was moping till 2 years ago- he has NOT been getting cocky over time) , and then disowned you and kept making threats ...and did it year after year, while pulling stunts...

:shakes head:

Your right and wrong. Sometimes Pa Kent's advice has screwed up Clark some of the time, Clark has over and over denied and wanted nothing to do with his Kryptonian heritage and has self-loathing for his alien heritage and even referred to Kryptonians as "You People"

Clark believes Earth is a paradise and humans are noble beings despite being proofed the contrary. He whines and whines and whines about not being human.

Jor-El's teachings have taught Clark, your actions have consequences. But Clark never learns his lesson and believed Jor-El wanted to control him. Clark was a bit of an idiot for most of the seasons. I blame bad writing and his Lana obsession.

[kal-el_Girl]

I don't believe a word Kara said to Clark, so....

[Lady Di]

@Delacroix: you really made me think, but after doing that, I think I'll stick to my view of things. I do agree that it usually turns out to be very unwise to disobey Jor-El. I cannot blame Clark and Jonathon for 'disobeying' (or for breaking deals they are pushed into), though.

The problem with Jor-El, is it's his way or the highway. And if you don't listen, he does something entirely disproportianate to get you to do things his way anyway. Which, in fact, makes him someone you cannot ever trust. His strongarming people into obeying, is abuse of power. And he feels (or is programmed to think?) that he is entitled to do this, for the greater good. What if our governments would do that? Scary thought.

His problemsolving skills, are nonexistant. What, in RL, do you do when someone says "no thank you, I do not think I'll do that" and it is important for you to get them to do something anyway? You'll ask "Well, what WOULD you be willing to do", and then you try to compromise and to solve the problem another way. It is entirely possible that there is more than one solution to a problem and that someone else can come up with a more workable idea than your own. This is not a novel concept (stupid AI). Had Jor-El (who should have been the wiser person/AI) been a little more flexible, Clark might not even have blown up the spaceship.

So, we know Jor-El is a veritable fount of information and that he is aware of some dire threats that may or may not come to earth. He does not share this information untill it's almost too late. Even then, the information he does give out, is incomplete. As I wrote earlier, why not have a little sit down with Clark and discuss the various threats. He could have easily done something like that when he put Jonathon in a coma to get Clark to obey.

[ox007]

It would be a really cool and smart twist if Darkseid was controlling FOS and Kara, it would require Clark to act heroic and he would have to use his brain to stop them full time! It would serve Clark well for sure.

[The Caped Crusader]

No of course Jor-El hasn't disowned him, don't be ridiculous. Says he has, but he has NOT! Its just another lesson. He merely told Clark what he need to hear to enable him to become a true hero. He isolated him - he can no longer turn to anyone in authority for advice or guidance. Similarly Kara has returned to help Kal-El fulfill his potential, nothing more.

Its been done before. In fact it reminds me a bit of Neo and the Oracle in The Matrix

Oracle: "But... you already know what I'm going to tell you." Neo: "I'm not The One."

and later Neo said to Morpheus something like... "But the Oracle told me I'm not the One?" -- Morpheus replied, "The Oracle told you exactly what you needed to hear, nothing more."

Why wasn't Neo the one?...thought he was?

[menthys]

Man, if we start talking about Jor-El being "inconsistent" , we get nowhere! The alternatives we have for Jor-El's behavior are the following.

1. The writers have lost their marbles too many times, and they make him good this week, bad that week, loving father this episode, ostrich-in-the-sand in this one.
2. The writers have NOT lost their marbles, and Jor-El keeps using Clark as a tennis ball, telling this and that to manipulate him into his destiny, but also to protect him. Anyone remember that crap about Clark's destiny being "to rule the third planet" and how, in the very first years, Jor-El seemed to us like a goddamn villain, pushing Clark awya and making him make his own choices, while Swann received that message that seemed as if it were made by a loving father? I mean, what the ****? Or the super-powered bimbo, before Kara? Or Clark turning to Kal in Season 4, but, correct me if i am mistaken, holding a memory of flying? Or how Jor-El stripped him of his powers in season 5? Blah blah blah this list is endless. Now, it's Season 10, episode 1, Clark grabs the planet globe, but Jor-El dismisses him as vain and proud, reminds him he should beware how he uses his power. Two episodes later, Kara "takes his place". Again, accident? I don't think so.
3. The third option is more or less a conjunction of the second,with another ace up the sleeve. Something MAY be going on with Jor-El and the Fortress,and the crap about him telling Kara to steal Clark's destiny. WHETHER IT IS OR NOT, THOUGH, the result is the same, Clark is being told "you are not ready", and, let's face it, HE IS NOT.

[Komsomolets]

Why wasn't Neo the one?...thought he was?

Well Neo was destined to be "the One", the Oracle knew this as she could see the future, but she also knew he had a way to go before he believed he was the "The One", he wasn't there yet. So the Oracle lied and led him to believe that he wasn't "The one", which is exactly what he needed to hear in order for him to discover for himself that he was in fact "The One". Make sense yet?

Can you see the parallel with Clark's situation. Jor-El disowns Clark and tells him he is not Earth's saviour, so Clark goes out into the world and discovers for himself that he is Earth's saviour. Later you will see Jor-El welcome him back to the fortress for passing the final trial.

[HotStudsSuccess]

Kal-El Clark and Jor-El should be on Dr. Phil