Do you think Zach switched bodies with Adam before being stabbed?

[monstermight]

Cas said there were 5 angels, he killed one, then killed four ....er ...so did he count zach as an angel or something lower than that? becuase otherwise he would have counted zach as the fifth angel. unless of course also zach left then came back after cas left the building.

[LuthorKent90]

Nope. His light went out, he's been around too damn long and they needed that death for the 100th.

And Adam was locked in the room, he is related to Dean. No doubt Michael is using his "meat suit". He isn't first choice, but he was there and he's a good temporary vessel.
I just don't think they would've made a big deal of Adam being locked in there with "the light", unless they were going to use him for something bigger. I hope they do! never saw that coming.

[SuperNinjaAlex]

it is a possibility, but hopefully not i loved how he went out it was like when you have to piss and you hold it in for a week and then finally letting go...yea like that xD

plus it was bad ass dean and sam basically confirming hey were bros we help each other out *stab*

bringing him back wouldnt make that as meaningful, square-enix (game company) could learn a thing or two by that and stop bringing back areith from Final Fantasy 7 in spin-offs and prequels...my god i cant believe i just tied supernatural to final fantasy haha

[xrayvision]

Nope. His light went out, he's been around too damn long and they needed that death for the 100th.

And Adam was locked in the room, he is related to Dean. No doubt Michael is using his "meat suit". He isn't first choice, but he was there and he's a good temporary vessel.
I just don't think they would've made a big deal of Adam being locked in there with "the light", unless they were going to use him for something bigger. I hope they do! never saw that coming.

I think if Michael is wearing him as his meatsuit, that he's doing it just to have Adam deteriorate like Nick was when we last saw him in Abandon All Hope. Because he knows if Dean sees Adam wasting away, he could get him to say yes. One thing I know for a fact that Michael won't do is wear use Adam as a vessel against Lucifer since he believes in destiny and has no doubts about it. So it would contradict the very root of Michael to already accept a Plan B as of now.

So I think Adam is still bait. But at the same time, if Zachariah is truly dead (perhaps Michael could resurrect him), then it means that Michael will be having to do all the grunt work since it doesn't seem there is anyone left under him to do it (otherwise we would have seen them by now).

But the timing of the changing of the interior of that room still has me raising doubts about Zachariah's death. I like Kurt Fuller and really hope they can bring him back as Zach since he's so good at playing dick characters and brings an awesome comedic factor to the show like he did in Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid (the scene with Mary Winchester) & in the beginning of Point Of No Return. I also liked him in It's a Terrible Life and the other episodes he was in this season.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

But the timing of the changing of the interior of that room still has me raising doubts about Zachariah's death. I like Kurt Fuller and really hope they can bring him back as Zach since he's so good at playing dick characters and brings an awesome comedic factor to the show like he did in Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid (the scene with Mary Winchester) & in the beginning of Point Of No Return. I also liked him in It's a Terrible Life and the other episodes he was in this season.

You liking him is probably why you're not letting it ease into your mind that Zachariah has died, lol.

I think, why the room stayed the way it was even after Zachariah died is because it's not just Zachariah's room; it's the "main stage" room where Michael was going to control Dean, and that's not happening, and since Zachariah has died, there isn't an angel yet to fill in his shoes to get Dean to say yes, and since Michael has already found a vessel already, albeit a "Plan B" vessel, the "main stage" isn't needed, so Michael cleaned the mess; took the dead vessels away, took the white-walled room away.

It begs me to know what Michael will be doing on Earth though while wearing Adam as the angel condom.

[xrayvision]

You liking him is probably why you're not letting it ease into your mind that Zachariah has died, lol.

I think, why the room stayed the way it was even after Zachariah died is because it's not just Zachariah's room; it's the "main stage" room where Michael was going to control Dean, and that's not happening, and since Zachariah has died, there isn't an angel yet to fill in his shoes to get Dean to say yes, and since Michael has already found a vessel already, albeit a "Plan B" vessel, the "main stage" isn't needed, so Michael cleaned the mess; took the dead vessels away, took the white-walled room away.

It begs me to know what Michael will be doing on Earth though while wearing Adam as the angel condom.

Yeah, my own preferences are probably clouding my judgement. I personally hope that the Trickster was somehow involved and that the Zach we saw stabbed wasn't the real one, but that's a longshot.

If Michael is wearing Adam, then I still think it's to deteriorate him to the point of forcing Dean to say yes.

[Superman's Girl]

I think the single thing that proves (at least to me) that Zachariah is really dead is the angel wings scorched into the wall/ground.

I totally agree.

[Kneel before Zod]

Not likely. He's toast. Besides, he would need permission to get into Adam's body.

[kcufehttahw]

wow xray you really want zac to live don't you? i like zac and kurt fuller, but i'm pretty sure he's dead. it was a very simple plot line to understand. and he specifically stated twice when they were in the room, once to adam and once to dean i believe (and you can rewatch it to verify that he says it) that michael specifically told him that this event was going to happen - at that exact location, so it's not zac's room per-say. but anyways. if you just think about it. when a scene closes out with michael coming down, and his temp vessel locked in the room with him. 2+2=? and dean can't speak enochian so even though michael is very cocky and knows dean will say yes, im sure he will still take adam as a temp vessel. just makes sense.

[kryptonhero25]

Does anyone know if the kid who plays Adam is signed on to be in any other episodes of the season?

[xrayvision]

I think the single thing that proves (at least to me) that Zachariah is really dead is the angel wings scorched into the wall/ground.

Yeah. The only way I think Zach could be alive is if the archangel at the end was not Michael but Gabriel (the Trickster) and the Zach we saw was a fake one created by the Trickster. It's unlikely, but still a possibility. Perhaps Gabriel has plans to get involved in the Apocalypse. If that white light at the beginning in the bar was Gabriel calling Zach back up, then it's possible the Zach we saw for the rest of the episode was a fake & the real Zach was in Heaven. It's possible Gabriel has some use for Zach that he wanted him back in Heaven. I know the population of angels has been dropping since Anna & all those other angels were killed. And archangels like Raphael & Michael are busy, so it's possible Gabriel needed Zach in Heaven for some unknown purpose.

But I realize the likelihood of this is very low. I hope it does happen though, because not seeing Zach face God for all his action would be like a rip-off. I would like to see more of his dickery followed up by him being made into the Winchesters' slave.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

How is that possible? Since when can Gabriel come down from Heaven anymore? Since when can he make a real-life angel death scene with white eyes and angel wings on the ground?

[xrayvision]

How is that possible? Since when can Gabriel come down from Heaven anymore? Since when can he make a real-life angel death scene with white eyes and angel wings on the ground?

Well, he's an archangel. So I'm sure he could do whatever he wants. I'm not sure if the body he has now is a vessel or is something he created. I think I remember hearing him say that he created his own body in Changing Channels, but I could be remembering wrong. Regardless, if he's the archangel Gabriel which was confirmed, then he could always ditch his body or vessel (whichever one it is).

I'm not sure what the term is for it. I don't think he's considered to be a fallen angel (or archangel in his case) like Anna since he still has his grave/powers & was seen easily overpowering Castiel in Changing Channels. Based on what we've seen with him & with Lucifer, it seems like "fallen archangels" don't lose their grace/powers like regular angels do since both are extremely powerful.

As for the white eyes & wings on the ground, if it's part of an illusion, he could make it happen & look real even though it isn't. It's not really any different than the many illusions he's created in the past. That's one thing I don't have doubts about. The thing I do have doubts about is if he would bother doing this & hatching up his own plan to make a fake Zach & what his motives would be. Maybe he thinks that Zach is such a dick that he'd be good as a replacement trickster while Gabriel moves on to more serious matters (the Apocalypse).

It's not likely that Gabriel/the Trickster did create a fake Zach, but at the same time it's not impossible, given how his crazy mind works. I did read some posts about doubts that the white light was Michael, so if it's not him, I'd think it would be Gabriel. I wouldn't think it was Raphael since we've seen him & his stance already & he wouldn't go around messing around with Michael's vessel (just like when we last saw him when it was Dean & Cas who called him out, it wasn't Raph coming after them), but Gabriel would. And if it wasn't Michael who was speaking to Zach in that white light or who approached that room at the end, I would expect a surprise from Kripke & that it was Gabriel instead since nobody's suspecting him of actively joining in the matters of the Apocalypse.

[Leo]

Well, he's an archangel. So I'm sure he could do whatever he wants. I'm not sure if the body he has now is a vessel or is something he created. I think I remember hearing him say that he created his own body in Changing Channels, but I could be remembering wrong. Regardless, if he's the archangel Gabriel which was confirmed, then he could always ditch his body or vessel (whichever one it is).

I'm not sure what the term is for it. I don't think he's considered to be a fallen angel (or archangel in his case) like Anna since he still has his grave/powers & was seen easily overpowering Castiel in Changing Channels. Based on what we've seen with him & with Lucifer, it seems like "fallen archangels" don't lose their grace/powers like regular angels do since both are extremely powerful.

As for the white eyes & wings on the ground, if it's part of an illusion, he could make it happen & look real even though it isn't. It's not really any different than the many illusions he's created in the past. That's one thing I don't have doubts about. The thing I do have doubts about is if he would bother doing this & hatching up his own plan to make a fake Zach & what his motives would be. Maybe he thinks that Zach is such a dick that he'd be good as a replacement trickster while Gabriel moves on to more serious matters (the Apocalypse).

It's not likely that Gabriel/the Trickster did create a fake Zach, but at the same time it's not impossible, given how his crazy mind works. I did read some posts about doubts that the white light was Michael, so if it's not him, I'd think it would be Gabriel. I wouldn't think it was Raphael since we've seen him & his stance already & he wouldn't go around messing around with Michael's vessel (just like when we last saw him when it was Dean & Cas who called him out, it wasn't Raph coming after them), but Gabriel would. And if it wasn't Michael who was speaking to Zach in that white light or who approached that room at the end, I would expect a surprise from Kripke & that it was Gabriel instead since nobody's suspecting him of actively joining in the matters of the Apocalypse.

Regardless of whether or not Gabriel is fallen or not, has all his powers in tact or not, I still believe that what happened truly did happen. It would seem like a cop out saying the "100th Episode" was just a trick or illusion.

And also, why would the room changing back to normal raise any questions on the legitimacy of Zachariah's death? Of course it was a majestic room because of an angel's doing. That's why it changed back to normal after Zachariah was killed i.e. left the room, not because he "left the room after switching vessels". The room being showed "normal" was to emphasize that Dean was too late in getting to Adam.

(They probably didn't show the room changing back to normal right after Zachariah's death because it was easier, and they could also explain that it remained that way because Michael was coming down)

They showed Zachariah's eyes shining because that's what it looks like when an angel dies.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

Well, he's an archangel. So I'm sure he could do whatever he wants. I'm not sure if the body he has now is a vessel or is something he created. I think I remember hearing him say that he created his own body in Changing Channels, but I could be remembering wrong. Regardless, if he's the archangel Gabriel which was confirmed, then he could always ditch his body or vessel (whichever one it is).

I'm not sure what the term is for it. I don't think he's considered to be a fallen angel (or archangel in his case) like Anna since he still has his grave/powers & was seen easily overpowering Castiel in Changing Channels. Based on what we've seen with him & with Lucifer, it seems like "fallen archangels" don't lose their grace/powers like regular angels do since both are extremely powerful.

As for the white eyes & wings on the ground, if it's part of an illusion, he could make it happen & look real even though it isn't. It's not really any different than the many illusions he's created in the past. That's one thing I don't have doubts about. The thing I do have doubts about is if he would bother doing this & hatching up his own plan to make a fake Zach & what his motives would be. Maybe he thinks that Zach is such a dick that he'd be good as a replacement trickster while Gabriel moves on to more serious matters (the Apocalypse).

It's not likely that Gabriel/the Trickster did create a fake Zach, but at the same time it's not impossible, given how his crazy mind works. I did read some posts about doubts that the white light was Michael, so if it's not him, I'd think it would be Gabriel. I wouldn't think it was Raphael since we've seen him & his stance already & he wouldn't go around messing around with Michael's vessel (just like when we last saw him when it was Dean & Cas who called him out, it wasn't Raph coming after them), but Gabriel would. And if it wasn't Michael who was speaking to Zach in that white light or who approached that room at the end, I would expect a surprise from Kripke & that it was Gabriel instead since nobody's suspecting him of actively joining in the matters of the Apocalypse.

Zachariah is dead.