The absence of Ellen & Jo

[xrayvision]

I wonder if Ellen & Jo are in hell since Ash didn't know about them being dead. It seemed like he had a good handle on Heaven's newest entrants. Or maybe some angel resurrected them somewhere.

I also wonder about John & Mary. You'd think Ash would have found them by now or know where they were given their "fame".

[chole_fan]

But why would they be in Hell...especially since Ash made it to heaven?? I don't know where they are, but I wonder if their absence will be important later on? Maybe they hadn't "gone into the light" just yet?

Don't know about John, though for sure he and momma both would be there.

[Divine Skylord]

It would make NO SENSE for them to not be in Heaven. While suicide may be a sin.....dying to save the life of others is not.

[chole_fan]

^^ I totally agree. They should have been there. I hope it gets explained at some point.

[xrayvision]

Maybe they're vengeful spirits on Earth who the Winchesters will have to hunt. Or...maybe Death brought them back for something sinister.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

Sacrifice or not, killing yourself is a sin. It makes perfect sense they're not in Heaven, imo.

And for John and Mary, perhaps they can't be "reached" because they're of a special pair, as the parents of Sam and Dean. Maybe they're in a very special Heaven.

[◊Lana◊Girl◊]

I don't think it was considered suicide- suicide is when you kill yourself because your life is so terrible, etc, you want to end it...but they were martyrs, going into battle even though they knew they were going to die.

Anyway, I think they are either in heaven or on earth somehow, but not in hell.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

So...if we go by that, then Jo can be seen as a "martyr", if you will. But Ellen still committed suicide. Ellen could've survived it for sure, such as Dean and Sam. She wasn't hurt or anything.

[xrayvision]

I would hope that if someone sacrifices themself to kill demons or other creatures from hell, that they would hopefully be excused from hell. But that's just speculation.

It's very possible that Death resurrected one or both of them for some sinister purpose. Maybe he and some other Horseman (War, Pestilence or Famine) cooperated to put them in a messed up state. They could be alive, but seeking vengeance against Sam & Dean for leaving there to die. It would be like the witnesses (Meg, Ronald & Hendrickson), except they wouldn't be just spirits. That would be very interesting. Ellen & Jo back as some messed up zombies/undead humans who would be hunting down Sam & Dean while the Winchesters would be hunting down Lucifer, the Horsemen, and every other evil.

[Divine Skylord]

So...if we go by that, then Jo can be seen as a "martyr", if you will. But Ellen still committed suicide. Ellen could've survived it for sure, such as Dean and Sam. She wasn't hurt or anything.

She wanted to die with her daughter, because she couldn't live without her. I can see a parental-love twist to it.

[Superboy2]

I don't want them to bring them back unless they are in heaven. I didn't like that they died, I'm glad they went down as heroes to the cause. Them coming back would ruin that.

[Kneel before Zod]

There are billions of people in heaven. How is Ash supposed to know when everyone dies? The reason he was able to find Sam & Dean so easily was because the angels were looking for them.

[bobsuncorp]

The way I see it, Jo was mortally wounded by a Hell Hound, whose purpose is to drag souls down to hell. Normally those souls are pre-damned, but I can believe that anyone they are sent after (they are after all pretty special creatures to use as enforcers) would suffer the same fate. Ellen killed herself. See above posts.

Having said all that I do think it is extremely unfair and I really hope that they are in an as yet undiscovered patch of Heaven.

Mary's soul was destroyed when she killed the spirit that was haunting their old house (an action which makes even more sense when we remember that she was a hunter too).

John may still be in Hell after he escaped at the Devil's gate, or he may be a disembodied spirit walkin da earth and will show up when the actors schedule allows it.

[Superboy2]

I thought Mary's soul was allowed to pass on to heaven or hell. She technically was supposed to go to hell for making that deal. I thought it was also stated that John went to heaven because one of the angels said that John had spent 100,000 years in hell and was then released.

[bobsuncorp]

John spent 100 years in hell (according to Alistair) before he escaped through the Devils Gate in time to help Dean kill Yellow Eyes. I don't believe we ever found out what happened to him after that, so it seems likely to me he is still stuck in between worlds.

I am almost certain that the psychic woman (Alabama or some name like that) told S+D that their mother's soul "was destroyed fighting that thing". Like I said, if anyone deserves a slice of heaven it's John and Mary Winchester, but not so far.