Maybe Zach better do some better thinking for his 'plans'...

[SVfan26]

Worst thing he could have done was involved Sam at all in the dream!future.

If not for Sam saying yes to Lucifer (in the dream!future) because 2014!Dean cut him out 5 years ago [& we know that because 2014!Dean came right out and said so], Dean literally may have caved to Zach and said yes to being Michael's vessel.

When will these beings learn that the best way to get through to Dean is not threaten his brother, or put Sam in a situation as was shown?

[Lexgirl33]

I think Zach is just really desperate Sucks for him. I am sure he knows Sam is his weakness though and thats why he used Sammy

[nicmar]

I think that Zach does not get people Dean especially so he only knows one way to go about getting what he wants and that's to Bully people. Dean would rather be wrong than give in so I think that there will not be any progress made on that front

[kari916]

I can't really fault Zach he is an Angel after all so he doesn't really understand the human emotions aspect of things I am sure in time he might begins to understand these emotions.

[xrayvision]

Something tells me that Dean will be temporarily possessed by Michael just before God shows up & orders him to leave. We've seen Sam possessed by Lucifer tonight in The End. I don't think the season will end before Dean is possessed by Michael at least once.

[Lexgirl33]

Well if Michael posessed Dean he will end up like the Raphael's vessel. So a temp possession would hurt Dean a lot, unless God was there to heal him asap. I would love to see dean possessed by Michael though

[LordDark]

Worst thing he could have done was involved Sam at all in the dream!future.

If not for Sam saying yes to Lucifer (in the dream!future) because 2014!Dean cut him out 5 years ago [& we know that because 2014!Dean came right out and said so], Dean literally may have caved to Zach and said yes to being Michael's vessel.

When will these beings learn that the best way to get through to Dean is not threaten his brother, or put Sam in a situation as was shown?

What makes you think Zachariah involved Sam? Sam was involved because it was the future and he is the vessel, the angels just showed Dean what the future holds if Sam gives in, it was future Sam that said yes, the angles had nothing to do with it, hell they left Earth completely. Even if it was an aternate future it was still something that exists in the timestream as a possibility, I don't think the angels created that future or that is was a dream (what would have been the point of actually transporting Dean if it was a dream or an altered reality, it was much like the time Castiel took him to the past), their ability to time bend seems to be limited, humans shape the future not angels, if they could then the future would have been one in which Dean let Michael in, if it was a fake why not show him the beauty of a world that had Dean say yes, instead a hell where he waited to long to say it?
I think the angels know humans all too well, they have been watching them since the dawn, they don't understand why humans don't have the same undying unquestioning devotion and love that they (angels) have for God and his creation, because unlike Lucifer (and Uriel) they refuse to acknowledge (at least out loud) the flaw in humans.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

I'm surprised no one has made a thread regarding Dean's death. Does Dean die on that very same spot in the year 2014 if Sam says yes to Lucifer?

And also...did Dean say when Sam said yes to Lucifer? He said something about two years ago, regarding 2012, but I'm pretty sure he meant that was when the Croatoan virus started.

[GENERALzod777]

Kripke is awesome. I didn't even realize the virus started in 2012.

[He Who Lurks]

Everything exists in the timestream as a possibility, especially in a world like the Supernatural one, where all sorts of mythical creatures exist in fact. The world could have been saved by an intervention by an army of invisible pink unicorns in 2013, or Atlantis or aliens or the ghost of Winston Churchill. The past is set in stone, but the angels can't know the future. If they did, then they would know that Dean wouldn't cooperate and would never have let Lucifer out in the first place.

What Zach showed Dean was a simple fabrication. It may have been based on what the angels think could happen in the future, but the future plays out based on trillions of circumstances that most people never even think of. What if that mission Future Dean went on had run into a Croatoan band before reaching the place where they could get the Colt? He may have missed it, which means that he wouldn't have staged that attack on Lucifer, which means everything would have changed. And that's just one possible difference over the course of 5 years.

[LordDark]

Everything exists in the timestream as a possibility, especially in a world like the Supernatural one, where all sorts of mythical creatures exist in fact. The world could have been saved by an intervention by an army of invisible pink unicorns in 2013, or Atlantis or aliens or the ghost of Winston Churchill. The past is set in stone, but the angels can't know the future. If they did, then they would know that Dean wouldn't cooperate and would never have let Lucifer out in the first place.

What Zach showed Dean was a simple fabrication. It may have been based on what the angels think could happen in the future, but the future plays out based on trillions of circumstances that most people never even think of. What if that mission Future Dean went on had run into a Croatoan band before reaching the place where they could get the Colt? He may have missed it, which means that he wouldn't have staged that attack on Lucifer, which means everything would have changed. And that's just one possible difference over the course of 5 years.

I disagree, the Supernatural world seems to be very specific about what can save and end the world, Angels have shown that they have the ability to bend time to allow travel, the future is random but they are now in charge of the universe calculating all those trillions of varibles and choosing the right alternate future would not be beyond their power, if it were a reality warp and not a time travel, why not give him hope? They want paradise, why not show him that paradise? they already know that showing him gloom and doom will not get him to go their way, if they created this it seems they would have gone the other way. The reason future Dean didn't run into any opposition was addressed in the ep. it was a trap, they let him get the Colt, all the demons running the world and they just happened to pick and torture the one that was part of Lucifers entourage? They let him and his little group get to where Luicfer was without interference, and future Dean must have known since getting the Colt that it was all a trap, which is why he already planned to sacrifice the group he took. If it was a fabrication why was Lucifer surprised to see past Dean?

[Lexgirl33]

I'm surprised no one has made a thread regarding Dean's death. Does Dean die on that very same spot in the year 2014 if Sam says yes to Lucifer?

And also...did Dean say when Sam said yes to Lucifer? He said something about two years ago, regarding 2012, but I'm pretty sure he meant that was when the Croatoan virus started.

Well 2014 Dean said he hadn't talked to Sam in 5 years (2009) So I am assuming that when Dean called up Sammy at the end of the episode, he changed that. But it had to be somewhere in that 5 years they weren't talking

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

Ahh, okay. It just makes me wonder if Kripke's Apocalypse lasts longer or is shorter than the Bible's seven years. If you don't count the seals being broken as one year, then you have 2009 to...2014? I mean, if that is when Dean dies, and he was the only one that could stop it, then...in that future, does pure evil win?

[xrayvision]

Ahh, okay. It just makes me wonder if Kripke's Apocalypse lasts longer or is shorter than the Bible's seven years. If you don't count the seals being broken as one year, then you have 2009 to...2014? I mean, if that is when Dean dies, and he was the only one that could stop it, then...in that future, does pure evil win?

Wouldn't God just show up & smite the whole Earth? Then again, this is Kripke's apocalypse, so his version of God is nothing like the real version.

I wonder if the Croatoan virus can affect angels. Something tells me it will turn out to be the case.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

Well, who knows...with Castiel saying the angels left after so long, and Michael not answering Dean when he kept saying 'yes', then it might SOUND like God is dead by this time around. Perhaps when Lucifer finally controls Sam, nothing is capable of stopping Lucifer inside a hybrid vessel.