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**Lexgirl33** · 09-14-2009, 02:11 PM

God is powerful! We have yet to even learn much about him. I think unless he is utterly needed, he won't step in. Thats why he has his angels. And I think this season, we will see him step in. I mean he did save Dean and Sam from being blow to bits by Lucifer and he did cleanse Sam of his addiction. Not to mention Zach was scared when Cas mentioned it so this shows that when the Big Man steps in, it puts the fear of god even in the Angels.

**VicNew** · 09-14-2009, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by Lexgirl33

God is powerful! We have yet to even learn much about him. I think unless he is utterly needed, he won't step in. Thats why he has his angels. And I think this season, we will see him step in. I mean he did save Dean and Sam from being blow to bits by Lucifer and he did cleanse Sam of his addiction. Not to mention Zach was scared when Cas mentioned it so this shows that when the Big Man steps in, it puts the fear of god even in the Angels.

So what are you saying? God is just playing chess or checkers with these characters? Just sittin back watching how all this play out and giving his KEY players a little hook up here and there?

**Lexgirl33** · 09-14-2009, 02:23 PM

I think he is using what he has. There is no need for him right now because his team can get it done. I think Cas is a very important part of the team and is basically the only Angel Dean trusts. With him gone, there is no chance that Michael would ever be able to use him as a vessel.

So bringing Cas back was a move by God probably to help get Dean accept Michael. (Davis Bloome mentioned this in another thread) Hence God needed to step in, in order to bring him back. What I am saying is. He'll step in here and there but hes not needed yet.

I don't see it as a game. I think hes waiting for the right moment to appear.

**VicNew** · 09-14-2009, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by Lexgirl33

I think he is using what he has. There is no need for him right now because his team can get it done. I think Cas is a very important part of the team and is basically the only Angel Dean trusts. With him gone, there is no chance that Michael would ever be able to use him as a vessel.

So bringing Cas back was a move by God probably to help get Dean accept Michael. (Davis Bloome mentioned this in another thread) Hence God needed to step in, in order to bring him back. What I am saying is. He'll step in here and there but hes not needed yet.

I don't see it as a game. I think hes waiting for the right moment to appear.

Ok, I feel that. My thing is, God would willing SET lucifer free (cause he could've stopped that if he wanted). Maybe Zach is not as bad as they make him seem. Cause he made a lot of good points in a f... up kind of way. If God wants Dean to accept Michael isn't that what Zach was trying to do all the while?

**Lexgirl33** · 09-14-2009, 02:36 PM

Well in some religions the apocalypse happens for a reason. Like basically its a new beginning so they let it happen. That way the world will start fresh. I'm sure someone here can explain that a bit better.

Yeah Zach was def. trying but Dean hates Zach lol I am still unsure whos side Zach is on..or if hes just a massive douchebag of and Angel. Hopefully we find out! So that is why maybe Cas is back, Dean trusts him and would probably do it if Cas convinced him. But Zach, no way lol But really we can't say why Cas is back cause we still have the whoolle season to find out lol We just know that God brought him back but thats still is a guess. Okay my head hurts

**VicNew** · 09-14-2009, 02:40 PM

Originally posted by Lexgirl33

Well in some religions the apocalypse happens for a reason. Like basically its a new beginning so they let it happen. That way the world will start fresh. I'm sure someone here can explain that a bit better.

Yeah Zach was def. trying but Dean hates Zach lol I am still unsure whos side Zach is on..or if hes just a massive douchebag of and Angel. Hopefully we find out! So that is why maybe Cas is back, Dean trusts him and would probably do it if Cas convinced him. But Zach, no way lol But really we can't say why Cas is back cause we still have the whoolle season to find out lol We just know that God brought him back but thats still is a guess. Okay my head hurts

We agree on something lol!
I just don't see God seeking Dean's help. I still believe this is a test for Dean. Will he have the balls to do the unthinkable to his brother. Cause let's face it, Sam is a product of old yellow eyes. Can't be an angel with a demon brother ya know. lol.

**Ginx** · 09-14-2009, 02:48 PM

I have been of the opinion that God is mia for a reason....part of me thinks that Zach and his posse of angels aren't 'the hand of God' they're doing what they want to do - essentially following in Lucifer's footsteps of how they think things should go. I was thinking more along the lines of Dogma (the Kevin Smith movie) where God was taken outta the picture while the other kids played....so it's not that God doesn't care, it's that he/she/it is incapacitated or elsewhere so they cannot act at this particular time. And God had entrusted the angels to do his bidding.

Hence why Cas seemed to 'hear' someone calling him and bailed before answering Sam/Dean on where he's still alive. Also the plane, God's hand at getting the boys out of harms way? Or someone else's play? I'm sure these things will be flushed out in the season as they are large questions that just can't be assumed or overlooked.

The other part of me is just ?? and keeping an open mind as to why things are happening this way and what answers we will be given without speculating.

At least that's my take....

**Lexgirl33** · 09-14-2009, 02:51 PM

Hmm maybe God is doing it for Michael? Michael is the one that needs Dean's help. But yeah we don't know what God's motivation is..thats a good point.

I hope Dean doesn't have to do that! lol But what is so great is that we don't know the end game. Not to mention we still don't know if Sammy will go darkside eventhough hes been cleansed.

I could see it being a test. Didn't Cas mention something about testing him in "It's the Great Pumpkin Sam Winchester"

**chole_fan** · 09-14-2009, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by VicNew

Ok, I feel that. My thing is, God would willing SET lucifer free (cause he could've stopped that if he wanted).

God is very powerful! He could do anything He wanted at any time. But he gave creation free will, freedom to choose their own path. So, I don't think he caused Satan to be released, he simply allowed it to happen. God doesn't always stop bad things from happening, but I do believe He uses bad things to bring about good. Hopefully that will be the case here. Obviously releasing Lucifer wasn't good, but maybe everything that happened leading up to that, all the choices the boys made, were necessary. All part of God's plan to prepare Sam and Dean to stop the end of the world. Could He do that all by himself? Sure. But God often chooses to work through humans (sometimes the most unlikely ones) to do His will.

Originally posted by Lexgirl33

Well in some religions the apocalypse happens for a reason. Like basically its a new beginning so they let it happen. That way the world will start fresh. I'm sure someone here can explain that a bit better.

That's pretty much the Christian view of the apocalypse. However, even within Christianity there is a lot of debate about the whole end times/tribulation/apocalypse. But basically the belief is that during the tribulation period Satan will be unleashed on earth for one last great run on humanity. Then Christ will return (with all the saints who have died) and fight the battle of armaggedon and set up His 1000 year reign (here on earth). The final judgement happens after the 1000 year reign and that is when Lucifer will forever be bound to hell, never to escape again. That is also when the "new heaven and new earth" will be created. But again, that is my understanding. There are a lot of conflicting views out there...

**Lexgirl33** · 09-14-2009, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by Ginx

I have been of the opinion that God is mia for a reason....part of me thinks that Zach and his posse of angels aren't 'the hand of God' they're doing what they want to do - essentially following in Lucifer's footsteps of how they think things should go. I was thinking more along the lines of Dogma (the Kevin Smith movie) where God was taken outta the picture while the other kids played....so it's not that God doesn't care, it's that he/she/it is incapacitated or elsewhere so they cannot act at this particular time. And God had entrusted the angels to do his bidding.

Hence why Cas seemed to 'hear' someone calling him and bailed before answering Sam/Dean on where he's still alive. Also the plane, God's hand at getting the boys out of harms way? Or someone else's play? I'm sure these things will be flushed out in the season as they are large questions that just can't be assumed or overlooked.

The other part of me is just ?? and keeping an open mind as to why things are happening this way and what answers we will be given without speculating.

At least that's my take....

ITA with you about Zach.

You explain things so much better than I do

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----

Originally posted by chole_fan

God is very powerful! He could do anything He wanted at any time. But he gave creation free will, freedom to choose their own path. So, I don't think he caused Satan to be released, he simply allowed it to happen. God doesn't always stop bad things from happening, but I do believe He uses bad things to bring about good. Hopefully that will be the case here. Obviously releasing Lucifer wasn't good, but maybe everything that happened leading up to that, all the choices the boys made, were necessary. All part of God's plan to prepare Sam and Dean to stop the end of the world. Could He do that all by himself? Sure. But God often chooses to work through humans (sometimes the most unlikely ones) to do His will.

That's pretty much the Christian view of the apocalypse. However, even within Christianity there is a lot of debate about the whole end times/tribulation/apocalypse. But basically the belief is that during the tribulation period Satan will be unleashed on earth for one last great run on humanity. Then Christ will return (with all the saints who have died) and fight the battle of armaggedon and set up His 1000 year reign (here on earth). The final judgement happens after the 1000 year reign and that is when Lucifer will forever be bound to hell, never to escape again. That is also when the "new heaven and new earth" will be created. But again, that is my understanding. There are a lot of conflicting views out there...

Great post!

**chole_fan** · 09-14-2009, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by Lexgirl33

Great post!

Thanks

I was just hoping it made sense! Sometimes, it's really hard to gather your thoughts about such a complex topic and then try and put them into coherent sentences...It's like you know what you want to say you just have no idea how to say it

**Lexgirl33** · 09-14-2009, 03:08 PM

I know what you mean. I was afraid I wasn't making sense

but you explained it really well and added some great stuff.

**targis** · 09-14-2009, 03:26 PM

Originally posted by chole_fan

That's pretty much the Christian view of the apocalypse. However, even within Christianity there is a lot of debate about the whole end times/tribulation/apocalypse. But basically the belief is that during the tribulation period Satan will be unleashed on earth for one last great run on humanity. Then Christ will return (with all the saints who have died) and fight the battle of armaggedon and set up His 1000 year reign (here on earth). The final judgement happens after the 1000 year reign and that is when Lucifer will forever be bound to hell, never to escape again. That is also when the "new heaven and new earth" will be created. But again, that is my understanding. There are a lot of conflicting views out there...

Just to add on to what you said

Well Satan in the real world is here on Earth now. The tribulation is the time period where the church is removed.

After the 1000 year period Satan will be released from the pit and be allowed to tempt people again for a short time and then there will be another war.

Originally posted by VicNew

Ok, don't get me wrong! I love this show! In fact Season 4 finale was ten times better than Smallville's season 8 finale (which sucked). My question is why isn't God powerful? I mean, he's GOD! How is Sam and Dean suppose to "help" God?
How did the angels run God outta heaven or like somebody on the thread said, "trap God in hell"
HE'S GOD!!!!

He is not the real God. This is fiction.

**chole_fan** · 09-14-2009, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by targis

Just to add on to what you said

Well Satan in the real world is here on Earth now. The tribulation is the time period where the church is removed.

Yeah, you said it better than I did, but that is basically what I meant. Satan is here, but God's hand is also on the earth, keeping Satan in check so to speak. During the tribulation, not only will the church be gone, but God will remove the Holy Spirit, giving Satan freer reign than he has now. Although there is debate about exactly when the church will be raptured...some say before the tribulation, some say at the 3.5 year mark (ya know 3.5 years of prosperity, 3.5 years of literal hell on earth) and some say the church won't be raptured till after the tribulation.

Originally posted by tagis

After the 1000 year period Satan will be released from the pit and be allowed to tempt people again for a short time and then there will be another war.

I remember that now that you mention it. Thanks for the reminder! It's been a while since I studied Revelation.

Originally posted by targis

He is not the real God. This is fiction.

So true!

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